let me -- katie benner, what you said jumped out at me about what trump thinks. picks on the supreme court. here's how that's worked out for the united states supreme court. 7% -- i thought this was a typo. this is the second time i read it. 7% of all americans have a great deal of faith in the united states supreme court. 22% have none at all. gallup has been measuring public sentiment about the supreme court. it's plunged 20 points in 20 years, and it's still falling, dropping like a rock. but to your point, there is some gobbledygook in here. but trump, at least on terms of all of us having to deal with this, has gotten what he paid for in the supreme court by at least being able to make this move. what do you make of how quickly it can be dispensed with? whatis doj telling you? >> the justice department has no control over this. it really is up to the supreme court to either deny this petition or not. i think that it behooves the court -- the way the court is structured, you want the see difficult cases of law bubble up through the lower courts with a lot of

still with, us jackie alameda, peter baker, katie benner, and daniel goldman. one question, same question to all of you! how bad could this have been? katie? >> i mean, if we hadn't seen people like nancy pelosi be cool-headed and moved quickly, -- this could've gone for much longer. the attack was not going to and for -- unless donald trump called it off. so it took trump hours, and then we need leaders like nancy pelosi to -- to rally troops from maryland, d. c., et cetera. so clearly, those actions did help, without them, obviously things would have gotten worse. >> cool hand nance saved the day. daniel? >> well i'm going to take the -- a little bit beyond january six. and i think what we are seeing is that this election was hanging in the balance long before january six, and if it weren't for judges, many of whom were appointed by donald trump. and other republican officials who stood up and against the lawlessness, that they were being asked to do. donald trump very well may have gotten his wish. and then installed as president. and there are republicans a

nbc's new correspondent moderator of washington -- katie benner's hair, pulitzer prize-winning justice department reporter for the new york times. and we have cocktail, department justice veteran and former acting solicitor general during the obama administration and has argued dozens of cases before the u.s. supreme court. katie, let's turn to you. the subpoena, the anticipation for it grows by the day. it is like the rose ceremony and the bachelor at this point. how close we begin dusting? >> i think so lofgren was telling the truth. of course. which he said they're very close. they need to be extremely careful with a subpoena, as you can imagine. and they also needed to -- about the subpoena. soon after they said they're gonna stop much of the testimony and documents. you saw that he put out to a 14-page-page filled with lies about the election. literally illustrate the race the race and getting donald trump to testify. which is one of the reasons why congresswoman lofgren said you're very focused on documents. in addition to assess the motive. is that a high was move the committee

nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali, "new york times" reporter, and msnbc contributor katie benner and legal analyst charles coleman. good afternoon to all of you. ali, obviously this is breaking in the last hour. you were busy reading everything in between your live hits. walk us through some of the key points and deadlines we're learning. >> the deadlines are one of the first things that we were looking for. you've got one for documents on november 4th that's before the midterms and will probably raise some eyebrows on the republican side of things and then the deadline for trump to appear for a deposition is after the midterms, on november 14th. look, there's some striking language that is used in the letter. not just the letter that we're seeing now, but the subpoena itself, being transmitted. that is rare for this committee. but i want to pull up for you on the screen just some of the bullet points that the committee is leveraging here as they tell trump why they want to speak with him. more than ten of them were included. but they start with purposely and ma lish -- malicious

for more on this, let's bring in katie benner, pulitzer prize-winning justice department reporter at tie, thanks very much for coming back to the sunday show. >> thanks for having me. >> so listen to this from january six committee chairman bennie thompson. on ginni thomas's appearance on thursday. >> she expressed her believe that the election was still stolen. did she believe that? >> yes. >> can you characterize what she is not answering? what she's refusing to answer? >> no. >> so you're saying she still believes 2020 election was stolen? and she told me that? >> so, katie, if ginni thomas is still staying the election was stolen, even after dozens of judges have said it wasn't stolen, isn't that a lie? >> i mean, i don't know that she's lying fits her true belief. i think what's fascinating about ginni thomas's she is this avatar for the large swath of the country who, despite all evidence the contrary, does truly and deeply believe that donald trump won the election. this can't be overlooked and it can't be dismissed because ginni thomas is the wife of a supreme court justice. s

with that, let's get smarter with the help of our lead off panel on this monday night, katie benner joins us, police surprise winning reporter for the new york times. sam stein, veteran journalist and white house editor for politico, and tally weinstein joins me here at 30 rock, former federal prosecutor and state prosecutor in new york. she clerked for merrick garland, and justice sandra day o'connor. katie, do you first, explain what trump wanted, this forward attorney of his, alex cannon, to do regarding these documents. >> -- he presented to the national archives and everything had been returned, he also one of the statement crafted that would be read on return of the documents, saying that always clear and at the national archives now had everything unwanted. the washington post reported that he didn't to do that, because being a lawyer he understood he was in considerable eagle jeopardy. >> here's the thing. that happened, what, in 2021? and still, the national archives doesn't have all the archives, isn't it true? >> that's true. the national archives sent a letter that they believ

katie benner, the reporters who broke the story for the new york times, and she joins me now.huckle, i have to say with that headline, because you have to think, at this point, we have gone around this quite a bit. i think, coming clean, tell us what indicates, through your reporting, that you still think he might have documents. >> the justice department, and our sources, is whether they found new evidence, or whether they have interviewed witnesses that have told them this. i think the department has been pretty straightforward, and signaling there is a fear, including by saying, in court papers, they have empty folders marked with classified markings, and have no materials in them, and the materials that should be in them, are not in their possession. that is the big tip off. i think the reporting that trump's own legal team is divided, over whether or not to cooperate with the government in its request for the remaining documents. >> let's talk more about that because, obviously, he hired this very well regarded lawyer down in florida, with the former solicitor general for

discuss is msnbc contributor and justice department reporter for the new york times, a refrain katie bennerformer federal prosecutor, shanna woo. the other good friend is with us. welcome to you both. i'm happy allay here because there is a lot to unpack. katie, what exactly is the justice department's argument for expediting the appeal and why are we seeing this request now? >> sure, so much of it is what you just mentioned. the justice department knows that in a different appeals ruling, so many court rulings going back and forth. and appeals court called it aileen cannon. basically overstepped even in appointing the special master in the department would like to see the entire review. to see whether or not, they should've happened in the first place. keep in mind, the justice department has won on a couple of, counts able to use the classified information. and its investigation and in a larger assessment of whether national security interests were harmed. but still, about 11,000 documents are being held up by aileen cannon. and her order that if you are viewed by a special master. so the

let's bring in katie benner and back with us, our good friend joyce vance. both msnbc contributors. ederal investigators. she came in voluntarily. she was not put in front of a grand jury. she went in because she feels that she wants to cooperate and that she wants to tell the truth. and very likely she sees herself as becoming the fall person for, you know, for misbehavior she does not want to take credit for and very likely leads to people above her, other lawyers and possibly even donald trump. >> it doesn't sound like good legal work to sign something you haven't seen or don't no anything about. is that a defense if she's in the investigation? >> it's not a very good one, nicolle, and her conduct really goes beyond just signing this statement. that's certainly one of the places where she could find herself in trouble. there is, perhaps, other conduct, as well, where she's concealing crimes committed by other people, which is a federal crime, so, it's a little bit surprising that she'd speak to doj voluntarily, with though guarantees that what she says can't be used against her. o