our next panelist is kell mcclanahan, executive director and founder of the national security counselors. he received his master of arts in security studies from georgetown university, his juris doctorate from american university washington college of law, welcome back, and his master's of law from georgetown university in national security law from georgetown university. drew had mentioned, you know, how tough it is to go at the fbi, you know, the only thing worse is the cia, and that's what kel is here to talk about, some of the national security counselors cases against the cia. >> well i can second that, having gone against the fbi and the cia. the fbi actually has the exclusions. the cia doesn't even have exclusions, so they have to make up new and exciting exemptions to withhold information. and the way they do it -- a while back -- i'll be talking about really four cases that are really just one big case that we'll split into different cases, short, for thematic reasons and so we wouldn't have a 100-page complaint, but the four cases are all attacking specific policies. see, most