>> good morning, guys, i don't think anyone would consider ken chesebro a household name but he was at the center of a key part of donald trump's effort to overturn the 2020 election, this effort to put fake electors in key battleground states and he's already pleaded guilty to a related crime in the georgia state level investigation into trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election, and now prosecutors in at least four other states also want to talk to ken chesebro, they're conducting their own investigations into the fake electors that were put forward in their states and they want to know how those electors were organized, why they signed these fake certificates submitted to congress and ultimately rejected when mike pence declined to overturn the election on january 6th but it remains to be seen how much help ken chesebro -- we've seen criminal charges be brought down in two of them, nevada recently, just as recently as this week, indicted all six of their fake electors after talking to ken chesebro. we'll have to wait and see what the ultimate result is. jack smith's federal indi

that man is ben tropeus, and here is ken chesebro about what was told about wisconsin. >> clear that he told the president there was zero hope in wisconsin. as part of this message crafted to get him to see this long-shot challenge. so there was a -- there was a conscious effort to deflect him from the sense of any possibility that he could pull out the election. >> so, that's the bad news. there's no chance you can win. we all know what happened, though, kate. trump continued to contest the results in wisconsin and the other states. this is big and important evidence possible for special counsel against jack smith. that is loaded with exames of trump being told by his lawyers and by his advisers that he lost and it doesn't mention this oval office meeting so these new revelations against the existing evidence against trump. >> he said that's not the only thing that happened that's gone bad in this oval office meeting. what happened next? >> after they talked about that, the conversation moved to arizona and this is when chesebro chimed in and this was the first time he was ever meet

ken chesebro was taking the fifth. w that we have these proffer, it's the first time we're seeing chesebro's word, his retelling and how he felt about what happened there. >> marshall, speaking of that, now that he is talking, we are hearing his side of the story, you have in the reporting that the attorneys reached out to jack smith's team before hi had a guilty plea. their attorneys says they have not heard back from jack smith's team. why do you think he hasn't reached out? wouldn't this be helpful to the case he's trying to prosecutor in washington? >> i'm sure jack smith's team would like to talk to anybody who was involved, but they have built a robust case against donald trump without any help from chesebro. this indictment vaguely represents this episode in terms of getting the ballots to washington, d.c. there's one paragraph tucked in, kind of vague, doesn't have all the details we've been discussing here today. if you look at the paragraph before, that's about donald trump tweeting about mike pence, all he ha

you here kyung talking about how ken chesebro is going to cooperate in nevada, obviously pled in georgia, central in arizona. but we'll see where that goes. what's the significance of this? >> i think it's very significant. chesebro is thought of as being a chief architect of the fake electors scheme across the different states. and in nevada in particular, he in fact writes in a memo that nevada is the -- in an extremely problematic state because the meeting of the electors requires the secretary of state to oversee it. and so he's already identified nevada's extremely problematic for them because the law does not allow them to do what they did. so it's there in writing. so he has a lot of legal jeopardy in nevada, and usually prosecutors aren't going to try to flip somebody. if they're a chief architect they're going to go up the chain of command. >> if he's cooperating in all these instances and as the chief architect, then what does that mean? >> it doesn't -- it shouldn't be that it points downward but point upward, and there are two people above him, donald trump and rudy giuliani.

but i think it's interesting that jack smith has not taken ken chesebro up on his request to cooperate with him and that he doesn't seem to be interested to hear what he has to say and if you remember, ken chesebro's apology letter in georgia, if you want to even call it that, is basically not an apolly letter. he basically regrets doing it which is kind of what he's saying here, too. he regrets it because he's being thrown under the bus. so until he comes out and says donald trump knew he lost the election. we were doing this any way to try to steal the election from the country. i'm not sure how valuable chesebro ultimately is to jack smith. >> john, what do you make of these details of this new reporting? >> i think karen's point is well taken. chesebro seems to have lots of regrets. he also regrets that the lawyers for the trump campaign appeared the desert him at one point and he turned on them. we seem to now know his motive for coming forward and pleaing because he was not going to let the other ones point the finger at him. this is not unusual in a conspiracy but we don't alway

here's more from ken chesebro on how he decided this episode. >> this is a high-level decision to get the michigan and wisconsin vote there's. they had to enlist a u.s. senator to try to expedite it, to get it to pence in time. >> one thing chesebro is highlighting is the tension there, the pointing fingers on this. whose call was it? whose responsibility was it that led to this scramble? >> the details in the story are wild and shows just how comprehensive, if scrambled effort was. why are we learning this much now? >> we're learning this much now because ken chesebro, this attorney that was working for trump, he wasn't talking before. he took the fifth when he testified to the house select committee previously. after he was charged with a crime in fulton county, georgia, he pleaded guilty and started talking. he talked to prosecutors there. he talked to prosecutors in other states, including in michigan. we were able to obtain this audio and e-mails that had not been out there before among him and people with campaign e-mail addresses, at the very last minute before january 6th. big

take a listen to what ken chesebro, who's been described as the architect of the fake elector plot, told investigators in michigan about the scramble and about the reaction of trump trump campaign officials. >> the general law -- of the trump campaign is freaked out that roman reported that the michigan votes are still -- it doesn't look like they're going to get to pence in time. so the general cost of the campaign was alarmed and was chartering. they did have to charter a jet, but this is a high level -- yet the michigan and wisconsin votes. and they had to enlist a u.s. senator to try to expedite it to get it to pence in time. >> so according to chesebro, the trump campaign even considered triggering a private jet to fly a staffer from michigan and wisconsin to d.c. to deliver these physical copies of the fake certificates, because the idea was mike pence had to bring those certificates to the house floor in order for them to be counted, if he actually went through with the plan to reject biden's legitimate electors. so really taking it behind the scenes here of what happened and even

in another exchange another elector laments apparently ken chesebro is inviting himself to this thing. and sure enough these new pictures show trump lawyer slash skunk at the garden party ken chesebro in the room overseeing the fake electors plot in wisconsin, snapping pictures like it was a birthday party and not a coordinated attempt to overthrow democracy. the trump team was apparently so involved in this plot in wisconsin that they provided private security to the fake electors as they gathered together to pretend certify votes for donald trump. so today we are finally seeing the consequences here for all of this. there are settlements. there are statements, there are investigations. there are trial dates. all of these things are finally happening, and none of it looks particularly good for donald trump and his alis. the more we learn about these players and plots across the country, the more we see directly team trump appears to have been involved. which is why today in georgia we learned fulton county district attorney fani willis plans to call some of trump's inner circle to th

people think very, very hard about trying to pull this kind of garbage off ever again. >> reporter: ken chesebro pled guilty in the state of yea and when he did that the terms of his plea deal changed allowing him to travel to states like nevada and as well to arizona, where the attorney general in that state has what she has previously described to cnn as, quote, a robust case to sources familiar with the arizona case say that chesebro is indeed in touch with investigators in arizona although the concrete details of how quickly that will proceed is still unclear. this is cnn in las vegas, nevada. >>> the list of companies pulling ads from "x" is getting longer. what does this mean for the company's future? that's next. the power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. >>> welcome back

but on the prosecution's witness list is ken chesebro, which is of course significant. he's close to the president. he's the former attorney, and he's accused of helping master mind this whole fake elector scheme. now, you know, we're seeing images of the gop chair there, michael mcdonald. one thing that's pretty significant here is that the gop hierarchy in nevada was just charged with trying to derail an election and give an advantage to donald trump. that same gop hierarchy is going to be running the presidential primary caucuses in nevada in just two and a half months, and these are just charges, so there's nothing stopping trwarw. >> natasha korecki, thank you for that. >>> and coming up, did last night's fiery republican debate change any hearts and minds in the state that votes first next year? you've got to hear what some voters have to say about it. we'll head to iowa in 60 seconds. in 60 seconds. are provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether y

past former or former codefendants in this case ken chesebro tried first amendment challenges as well. they took plea deals with the district attorney's office and testified potentially against the former president in any future trials. what the judge said is that the facts in evidence first need to be established in court before those first amendment challenges can be made. those challenges are going to start any moment now. >> nick valencia, thank you for that reporting. >>> tune in this sunday to " "state of the union." lindsey graham is among our guests. thanks so much for joining "inside politics" today. "cnn news central" starts after the break. goli, taste your goals. >>

what was a mad scramble that took place on the eve of january 6th 2021 and they come by way of ken chesebro who's been described as the architect of the fake plot. he recently sat down with state level negotiators in battleground states. when he sat down with the michigan investigators, he laid out the document and how the trump campaign and officials at the top of the hierarchy were intimately involved in trying to get these fake certificates to washington, d.c. on january 6th and specifically, the certificates from two key battleground states. michigan and wisconsin when they learned those certificates had been stuck in the mail. take a listen to what he told v investigators in michigan a few weeks ago. >> at this stage, the trump campaign is still actively involved. yeah. that is the trump campaign is freaked out that roman reported that the michigan votes are still in a sorting facility in michigan and doesn't look like they're going to get to pence in time. >> so why were they freaked out? well, these certificates signed by the fake electors on december 14th, they had to be physically

rejected similar arguments from co-defendants that those arguments arose with zud knee powell and ken chesebro. and the judge rejected those arguments. he said basically that the first amendment claims were not ripe, meaning that there needed to be more factual development. and if folks were just listening to the judge just now, he mention ed this case called hal. that is a new case that trump's attorneys have raised in their own arguments. they are trying to get mcafee to reconsider or his reasoning that he raised in the chesebro and powell denial of the first amendment claims based on this new case. it remains to be seen whether he will do so. but even if he decides that now in light of this new case that he can look at these first amendment arguments, i still think that it's a very slim chance that trump will succeed here. as you mentioned, the first amendment, although it is robust, it does not protect inducement to fraud, which is one of the charges that's involved here that's been brought against trump and ot others. so inducing the fake electors to make claims that were false in terms o

it comes from ken chesebro who in many ways was the architect of the fake elector's plot. cnn obtained recordings of interviews and hundreds of emails that he turned over. they reveal the last minute scramble to get the fake certificates to washington, d.c. take a listen to chesebro describing what happened when trump campaign officials realized that the ballots from michigan and wisconsin were stuck in the mail. >> general counsel for the trump campaign is freaked out that roman reported that the michigan votes are still in the facility which doesn't look like that they will get to pence in time. so general counsel for the campaign was alarmed and was chartering -- didn't have to charter a jet, they did commercial. so yeah, a high level decision to get the michigan and wisconsin votes there. they had to enlist a u.s. senator to try to expedite it. >> reporter: remember they wanted to have mike pence throw out the real electors. in the end the campaign didn't charter a jet. staffers booked last minute tickets on commercial flights and ferried the ballots to d.c. on january

important to note this first amendment challenge has come up with ken chesebro and sidney powell, thoseormer co-defendants. what scott mcafee, the ruling he issued there says facts and evidence need to be established if court before that first amendment challenge could be put into the equation. brianna? >> norm, this first amendment argument, as we noted, the judge has struck it down before. any doubt in your mind that that happens again this time around? >> it's virtually certain, boris, that this trial is not going to be slowed down by the first amendment argument before we get to trial. now, it is possible, when you get into trial and the facts and evidence come in, and that's what the judge signaled, he may say, well, we're going to take this piece of the case out, some of the remarks on january 6th, you won't be allowed to argue that to the jury. so he may peel away little pieces here and there, he may not. for now, first amendment not an obs obstacle. >> and trump's lawyers are attempting to get all these criminal trials delayed here. >> well, and we got a taste of that in the aft

we have this audio from chesebro, the pro trump attorney, ken chesebro, who talked to investigators in michigan about this. listen to what he had to say. >> general counsel of the trump campaign is freaked out that roman reported that the michigan votes are still in the facility at michigan and doesn't look like that they will get to pence in final so the general counsel of the campaign was alarmed and was chartering -- well, they didn't have to charter a jet, but they did commercial. so yeah, a high level decision to get the michigan and wisconsin votes there. and they had to enlist, you know, a u.s. senator to try to expedite it to get it to pence in time. >> so just to be clear, what he's talking about there is getting an airplane on the eve of january 6 to get these electors from where they were in wisconsin and michigan to washington, d.c. where mike pence was set to certify the election on january 6 at the capitol. what does this tell you, this exchange tell you about the questions about former president trump and an insurrection? >> kasie, this is remarkable. utterly remarkable

the information came from ken chesebro, who is a former trump lawyer. he has a plea deal in georgia. he's talking to prosecutors in other states. he is saying i don't have warm feelings about them. they should be really concerned. he's shared a lot of damaging information with the government. >> so fascinating. it is great reporting. such a great discussion. don't go anywhere. coming up, we're going to talk about cleanup on the campaign trail. nikki haley is still in new hampshire trying to recover from her civil war gaffe. we're going to get an update from the granite state, when we come back. iowa today after her swing through new hampshire didn't go quite as planned. she's spent the past 36 hours trying to recover from a town hall moment when she con speckously failed to say slavery when asked about the cause of the civil war. >> of course, the civil war was about slavery. we know that. s that's the easy part of it. what i was saying was what does it mean to us today? what it means to us today is about freedom. >> by the grace of god, we did the righ

here is a clip from ken chesebro what the lead attorney in wisconsin told donald trump. >> it is clear that troops personally told the president there was zero hope in wisconsin. as part of this message, i think trying to get him to concede, give up this long shot challenge. so there was a conscious effort to deflect him from a sense of any possibility that he could pull out the election. >> zero hope. that's what he said. so, look, some people around trump told him that he couldn't win and he tried ty eied to ovee election any way. that's a part of the criminal case. that indictment is filled to the brim with examples of trump being told that he lost. this oval office meeting was not in the indictment, so it builds on the existing case, the existing evidence against trump. >> you also say that another part of the audio reveals something that could possibly help donald trump's defense. >> that's when chesebro started talking in the meeting with donald trump. again, remember, he was told don't give trump any hope. once the conversation moved to arizona, he did just that. take a listen.

there was that trial that had been set to go forward the co-defendants sidney powell and ken chesebrolead guilty and now there is a huge question hanging over judge mcafee's head of when is this case going on the calendar and how long do the parties have to make their arguments and get it addressed in court. there is also a question of what donald trump's team has to do going forward in that, he has been hopping on what other defendants in the case have been arguing, but his lawyers have not been out there on their own, and we have seen it in court, and this hearing is just starting, so we will be watching exactly what happens there, and where judge mcafee takes i. >> i want to go to you, elie honig, and we are looking at the pictures of the judge, and the first time that trump's attorneys have been there in person defending their client. and what they are looking at is if they can look if anything can be thrown out on these ground, and if that is going to be involved with the subversion case along with others? >> yes, sure. the federal case that is happening in washington, d.c., is t

>> reporter: this really shows the transformation of ken chesebro from a conspirator in 2022 a cooperatornew that he was already helping state investigators in georgia and nevada. the development here is that the cooperation is abandoned. he's also helping investigators in michigan and wisconsin. this is the first indication of a criminal investigation in wisconsin, and that means that six of the seven states that the trump campaign targeted in 2020 now have investigations. most famously georgia, of course, with the racketeering case against trump and so many others where chesebro pleaded guilty. also this week earlier in nevada, ha -- charged fake electors there. now this also makes it clear that the investigation in michigan, where they charge the fake electors in july, clearly it's ramping up. at least it's still active, sources tell me. our colleague zak cohen, and chesebro's cooperation, is a big part of that. >> marshall, walk us through how this fits into the context of the federal election subversion case. the one being brought on by special counsel jack smith. >> reporter: jack s

bits and pieces of that story before, but now we're getting the full picture and it comes from ken chesebron many ways was the architect of this fake electors plot. cnn has obtained recordings of his recent interview with michigan investigators and hundreds of emails that he turned over there. they reveal that last minute scramble on the eve of january 6th to get those fake certificates to d.c. here is chesebro in his own words describing what happened when a trump campaign officials realized that the ballots from two key states, michigan and wisconsin, were actually stuck in the mail. >> the general counsel of the trump campaign is freaked out that roman reported that the michigan votes are still in the sorting facility at michigan, which doesn't look like they're going to get to pence in time. so the general counsel of the campaign was alarmed and was charter -- they didn't have to charter a jet but they did commercial. yeah, this is a high-level decision to get the michigan and wisconsin votes there. and they had to enlist, you know, a u.s. senator to try to expedite it to get it -- get

that is that ken chesebro, the lawyer who pled guilty in the georgia case, has been listed as a witnessthe nevada state attorney general's case. that means it's more than a tell, it's a public statement that the attorney general intends to use mr. chesebro and the information he has about assembling the false electors throughout various states in an attempt to defraud the united states, to defraud the united states public. also interesting is that "the washington post" is reporting that on monday, mr. chesebro is going to be in arizona speaking with the arizona attorney general about a very similar investigation. these investigations are ongoing. they are ongoing in multiple states. there are prosecutions moving forward. the benefit, the policy reason behind these is that the deterrent affect the prosecutions bring. the hope those in the future who would think to execute on these same kind of anti-democratic policies will think twice and not go forward with what we have seen happen in the 2020 election. >> paul charlton, it's very, very interesting. thank you for making that connection.

the first two of the cases involving ken chesebro and sidney powell goes to trial october 23 so this will, if this all proceeds unless there are a breath of guilty pleas and i don't see that happening, there will be multiple trials and each trial is going to take at least a month, if not two months, selecting a jury and a very large number of witnesses. this will be going on for months and could be like groundhog day. [laughter] it goes again and again and again. questions? back here. >> trying to keep this simple, i have written about this for a while. what would be the definition of deep state and if you have to define it also how does the department of justice and fbi have to have an official, psychological profile on trump and would have to show that? if you have a profile and didn't fit on how biden had to run his campaign, where were the official document say this is who trump is, like a psych profile, but the deep state, if you have to explain the deep state, i think you have to show that there is a rigging but i will try to keep it at that. >> i'm not sure i understand the qu

it comes from ken chesebro, who in many ways was the architect of the fake electors plot back in 2020. we have obtained recordings of his recent interview with michigan investigators and hundreds of emails that he also turned over. they reveal that last-minute scramble on the eve of january 6th to get those fake certificates to washington, d.c. take a listen to chesebro here describing what happened when trump campaign officials realized the day before that the ballots from michigan and wisconsin were stuck in the mail. >> the general counsel of the trump campaign is freaked out that roman reported that the michigan votes are still in the sorting facility in michigan, which doesn't look like they're going get to pence in time. so the general counsel of the campaign was alarmed and was chartering -- they didn't have to chart area jet, but they did commercial. yes, this is a high level decision to get the michigan and wisconsin votes there. and they had to enlist, you know, a u.s. senator to try to expedite it to try to get to it pence in time. >> remember, john, they needed to get thos

so saying they don't feel that remorse as part of some of these letters from sidney powell and ken chesebro. scott hall, the bail bondsman his letter was longer. he expresses remorse in a little -- many more words than some of the others. and, of course, it is very different from jenna ellis who read her letter while she was behind the defense table in front of judge mcafee back in october and was crying and saying how she regretted what she did, she regrets becoming a part of the trump campaign in the aftermath of the election. >> and in comparison to sidney powell, scott hall's says i did not mean to violate any law, i now realize i did and accept responsibility for my actions. katie, precedent here, do they usually put parameters on things like this, wriing letters? >> no, they don't. i found these letters to be wholly underwhelming and insufficient, but the most important part of the plea deal for these defendants, they're testifying truthfully when the cases go to trial and the proffers, the recorded proffers they gave, very detailed and very incriminating, that was more important than

but that doesn't mean that ken chesebro was not continuing to foment this in terms of, you know what,re's a legal way forward. and then donald trump saying, great, there's a legal way forward, even though it might be a 1% chance, that's what i'm going to do. so, i think you can have both ideas in your head at the same time, that there are people who are buying into this. and there are people who were alarmed by it. >> no one is going anywhere. we're going t a quick break. and when i return, a fundamental question about american justice that special counsel jack smith wants the supreme court to answer. whether anyone, and specifically the twice-impeached ex-president is above the law. what we can expect after a short break. >>> plus, the republican reproductive rights and how far americans are with votes as they continue to push more bans across the country. >>> and later, my interview with the families of some held hostage by hamas. what they're saying about the government's way to free the hostages. don't go anywhere. we planned well for retirement, but i wish we had more cash. you t

coming up in the next hour of "deadline white house" trump attorney ken chesebro has flipped, and held trump's efforts to overturn the election. the latest revelations involving a senator, a congressman, and a mail delay. that story right after a quick break. - [female narrator] five billion people lack access to safe surgery. thousands of children are suffering and dying from treatable causes. for 40 years, mercy ships has deployed floating hospitals to provide the free surgeries these children need. join us. together, we can give children the hope and healing they never thought possible. it's a mission powered by love, made possible by you. give today. >>> the assembled groups of individuals in key battleground stops and got them to call themselves electors, created phony certificates, and then transmitted these certificates to washington and to congress to be counted during the joint session of congress on january 6th. none of this worked. but according to federal district judge david carter, former president trump and others likely violated multiple federal laws by engaging in th

think that jack smith and his team have yet to speak to the architect of the fake elector plot, ken chesebro he is snatching now like a sworn man. he's mad because trump's top campaign guys like matt morgan and michael -- are trying to distance themselves with the big lie. to conduct after the election, rudy giuliani and kenneth chesebro were running everything. but chesebro's -- he's, like if i am going down, i am taking everybody else with me. that's why we are getting all of these juicy details. jack smith already knows all of this. he really needs this trial to have a full election day. that's why his federal election interference case where he was most accountable, former president trump. that's why he -- chesebro is an unindicted coconspirator in the federal election interference case. he could be charged later, that's why he's attorneys right now are reaching out trying make it do. >> you know, reverend sharpton, i want you to sten to more of what chesebro has to say. he is talking to prosecutors ag michigan. >> he finds representative perry or whoever it w, a pennsylvania, who gets a

kennet ken kenne kenneth chesebro is a critical witness and he's going state to state given evidence. also, what does this mean in the federal case with jack smith where trump is the one named person, wolf. >> good point. paula, as we know, georgia prosecutors have now gone ahead and officially listed former vice president mike pence and several other key former trump administration officials as possible witnesses in that case. tell us a little bit about that. >> this witness list is not public but our colleagues have learned that among the witnesses who were going to be called, former vice president mike pence. former attorney general, bill barr. national security adviser, mike flynn. of course, long-term trump ally, steve bannon. when it comes to former vice president mike pence, that's significant because while he has testified and been interviewed in the context of the federal investigation, he really hasn't been much of a factor in georgia so this is a first confirmation we're getting they could call him in the context of a trial. many of these other names make sense in the large

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