with us now to talk about this, nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian, and jacqueline alemany, congressional investigations reporter for "the washington post." she is an msnbc contributor. so, ken, what more do we know about how trump world is preparing for the possibility of another indictment? >> good morning, jose. here at the justice department, the special counsel's office is not commenting on a report by abc news that trump lawyers are meeting with jack smith's team at his office, which is separate from here, as we speak. nobody from trump's legal team has responded to our request for comment about that. but, trump's legal team appears to be reading the same tea leaves that we all are, and it starts with the fact that the former president got a target letter which meant he's almost certain to be indicted. only question is when. the grand jury didn't meet on tuesday as we expected that it might. they're in early today and there is some signs of signals pointing to today being a very important day. and just stepping back, you know, there was a time when people were

. >> actually, joining me now is ken dilanian, nbc news justice correspondent. he has some breaking news. ken, fill us in on even more breaking news happening in the last minute or so. >> reporter: katie, the justice department special counsel's office has now released, issued the superseding indictment filed against now three defendants, donald trump, walt nauta, and carlos deoliveira and these include four additional charges and i'm going to read them to you. it add a new count 32, charging trump with one additional count of willful retention of national defense information. and then the superseing indictment also charges trump, deoliveira, and nauta with two new obstruction accounts, based on allegations they tried to delete surveillance footage at the mar-a-lago club in the summer of 2022. finally, the superseding indictment charges deoliveira with false statements and representations in a voluntary interview with the fbi on january 13, 2023. now we need to go into that indictment, which includes the narrative that was in the original indictment and figure ou

ken dilanian, nbc news, santa monica. >> so interesting. >>> we're back in a moment with a look at how some americans have enlisted in ukrainine's battlele for independenence. put itit in check k with rin, a a once-dailyly pill. put itit in check k with rin, whenen uc got unprpredictable,e, i got rarapid symm relief witith rin. and left b bathrom urgegency behind. check. and left b bathrom urgegency behind. whwhen uc got t in my way,, i i got lastining, steroid-frfree remissision with rinvovoq. chececk. and whenen my gastroro saw dama, rinvoq helelped visiblbly repapair the cololon lining. chcheck. rapid sympmptom reliefef. laststing, steroroid-free remimission. rapid sympmptom reliefef. and a chchance to vivisibly repair thehe colon linining. check. c chec. and d check. rinvoq c can lower y your abiy to figight infectitions, including g tb. seserious infefections anand blood clclots, some e f; including g tb. cancerers, includiding lympha and skskin cancer;r; deatath, heart a attack, str, anand tears inin the stomamh or intntestines ococcurr. deatath, heart a attack, str, peoplele 50

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. >>> joining us is nbc news legal analyst, lisa rubin, ken dilanian.t today's hearing in the documents case, a separate case, the documents case in mar-a-lago, there are important rules that this trial will have to fall under because of the classified documents? >> yeah, that's right, jose. they're going to argue about that today, for example -- and it's just the beginning of a long process, but one of the questions in this case will be is the government going to ask that parts of these highly sensitive documents be redacted, even from the jury. there's a provision for that. we're not supposed to have secret evidence in this country, but when something impinges on national security there's a law that allows that to be kept secret from everyone and often defendants resist that. the most important issue that's going to be talked about today is the issue of scheduling and when this trial will take place. obviously donald trump and his lawyers are asking the judge to postpone it potentially until after the 2024 presidential election, and jack smith, the sp

ken dilanian, nbc news, santa monica. >>> a quick programming note before we go.gel examines the trajectory of the wagner leader, yevgeny prigozhin. how putin's former property jay turned on his boss, watch on assignment, revolt from within, the rise of wagner, on friday at 11:00 p.m. eastern. >>> that does it for me this hour. tune into "chris jansing reports" every day from 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. eastern. i'll see you tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. eastern. and our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" right now. >>> good to be with you, i'm katy tur. there is movement today from the florida judge who approved the fbi search warrant for mar-a-lago. judge bruce reinhart has ordered more of the justification used to search donald trump's private club and residence he made public. joining me now is nbc news investigative correspondent, tom winter. this affidavit was the subject of a lot of debate and conversation leading up to what we saw with the indictment. what could we learn from the affidavit that we have not yet learned from the indictment? >> right. we had a lot of

joining me now nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent, ken dilanian, and nbc news senior legalrespondent, laura jarrett. >> expungements you're laughing. >> that's not a thing. let's talk about what ryan reilly reported a moment ago, the news from the d.c. courthouse where we learned what william russell was being asked by the special counsel's team, something we do not usually hear unless we hear it directly from a witness. >> that's right, high drama at the courthouse unfolding even as we're talking, katy. stan woodward, who is the lawyer for russell, this young aide who followed donald trump even after he left the white house, and has been before the grand jury before, mr. woodward had a sentencing in an unrelated january 6th case that he was scheduled to be at, and he was late, and the judge asked him why he was lately. he was reluctant to talk about it. you're not supposed to grand jury grand jury -- discuss grand jury marries. now, the judge trevor mcfadden was not happy about this. he made a joke, said something like talk about obstructing an official proceeding in refer

let's bring in nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian now. can you tell us about these new grand juries? >> good morning, ana. remember that that special grand jury, which had been investigating this case in fulton county was not authorized to bring criminal charges, though it recommended charges against several individuals. now we have basically a standard grand jury that is about to hear evidence in this case. one that can approve indictments. our reporting is that one or both grand juries will be considering criminal charges in connection with donald trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. each panel will have about 26 participants, 23 grand jurors and three alternates. robert mcburney will preside and he's the same judge who oversaw that special grand jury that collected evidence in the trump investigation. it is worth noting that president joe biden won about 73% of the vote in 2020 in fulton county. in terms of timing, there are strong indications that the charges in this case would come later this summer, between july 31st and au

i want to bring in nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent, ken dilanian. we know about this white house meeting back in february of 2020 and why smith is now looking into it? >> reporter: this was a briefing for the president by senior intelligence officials and cyber security officials who explained to him that the u.s. elections system was really difficult to interfere with, difficult to hack. and that they had taken steps to protect it in the wake of attempts by foreign governments, china, russia and others to interfere with american elections. they shored up the system, made it impregnable to hacking and other kinds of interference. president trump, according to our sources appeared to be gratified by that. as you said, you know, cajoled them that maybe they should announce this in a news conference and crow about it, so his administration could get credit, and the reason that's important is it shows that jack smith, the special counsel is trying to delve into trump's mindset, his state of mind and what he knew about election security with the suggesti

joining us now is nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian and paul butler, formeror and professor at the georgetown school of law, he is an msnbc legal analyst. what else does this analysis tell us about the scope of the special counsel's focus here? >> good morning, jose. it shows that this a far reaching, sprawling investigation into any efforts to thwart the lawful transfer of power, which is the other mandate of special counsel jack smith, in addition to investigating the classied documents. we just chronicled that dozens of witnesses who have traukd to prosecutors, everybody from low level state officials who were pressured or higher level state officials like brad raffensperger the secretary of state of georgia and rusty bowers to members of the trump team to secret service agents to as you said, former vice president mike pence. when you look at it, it appears that jack smith is investigating this case as a expertise to thwart a lawful transfer of power. whether he brings a case against donald trump himself remains to be seen, but remember, there are already

joining me now is nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. had to read this a couple of times. i was surprised arizona hadn't already started investigating this, since it was one of the areas this fake elector scheme seemed so prevalent. >> one big piece of context there, katy, is that the attorney general's office changed hands last year from a republican to a democrat, so the democratic elected attorney general, chris mayes has decided to open an investigation. some stays where this happened, like michigan and wisconsin, simply referred this conduct to the justice department, so jack smith is investigating there. but arizona has decided to investigate under state law, and we're reporting that the attorney general has reached out to some of the 22 people who put their names on what are now known as fake elector doctors. remember that biden was the first democrat to win arizona in 24 years, and arizona became one of the epicenters of trump's efforts to overturn the election. the republican speaker of the house told the january 6th committee t

let's bring in nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian.s is separate from the classified documents probe but what do we know about this investigation and based on who has testified before the grand jury? >> good morning, ana. that's right, it's worth remembering in addition to investigating classified documents, jack smith was broadly cast with determining whether there were in violations oh of law in connection with those efforts to interfere with the lawful transfer of power after the 2020 presidential election, and the certification of the electoral college vote on january 6th. and our new nbc news reporting shows that this aspect of the smith probe has been more extensive than people realized. this part of the investigation goes well beyond the question of whether, for example, former president trump incited the january 6th violence. that's always been considered a difficult legal case. but smith and his team are focusing on some of the other efforts to overturn the election, including the scheme to put forward fake electors and effort

i know our colleague ken dilanian is in the courtroom. any idea what might be going on? >> i think they're going back and forth on a whole host of issues related to scheduling which in the normal case would be boring. in this case it's everything and we are waiting with baited breath if judge cannon gives the government what they want, a december trial date, or push it out a few months in which case running smack dab into another trial the same defendant is facing in new york, or she could decide to delay it indefinitely which i think would be pretty amazing in its own right because the former president hasn't made a legal argument for why they can't have the trial. >> what is the argument he's made? >> this is such a big deal, wow, this is so much discovery. that's not a legal argument. >> what about if he has other cases going on? >> that's not a legal argument. it's a very good practical argument. it's not a legal argument. >> with respect to his civil trials, he said i have these two civil trials already scheduled. we all know from the e. jean carroll trial that occu

. >> ken dilanian is at the justice department. ken, is it looking like today? what are you hearing from your sources at the justice department? >> reporter: i think you laid out some of the very important signals that today could be a big day. perhaps most important, the fact that donald trump's legal team traveled to the special counsel's office, which is some way away from here at the justice department, to have a meeting. at that meeting, they were told to expect an indictment against their client. we have known that's the situation ever since former president trump got a target letter more than a week ago. we expected the grand jury to meet this past tuesday, but they didn't for reasons that are unclear. then we saw them come in early today. this is a secret process. hard facts on the ground are few. we are relying on smoke signals and whispered conversations in the hallways here. it sure is looking like today is a very important day. this would be an incredibly significant development. as i look at the arc of the story, it wasn't very long ago people were

ken dilanian, carol leonnig, thank you all. glenn, you're going to stick around. >>> still to come, a party divided over former president trump's legal issues, how rivals are responding in 60 seconds. want a smarter way to mop? introducing the new swiffer powermop. an all-in-one cleaning tool with hundreds of scrubbing strips- that absorb and lock dirt away, for a mop and bucket clean in half the time. mop smarter with the new swiffer powermop. subway refreshed everything. and now, they're slicing their meats fresh. that's why this pro proffers the new grand slam ham. so does this pro. i just love a grand slam... ham. and if we proffer it, we know you'll proffer it too. i knew he'd love that sandwich. . >>> the republican divide over donald trump and his expanding legal issues remains heavily weighted in his favor, with his presidential campaign opponents taking a cautious approach with their criticism, at points sounding more like staffers than competitors. >> i'm not convinced that the president acting on the bad advice of a

senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake and nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanianell, katy, he said he never sought special counsel authority, but that appears to have been a mistake that the republicans and whistleblower made because he said that he did seek the authority to become a special attorney which would have given him the authority to bring a case in any jurisdiction in the country without the u.s. attorney. the whistleblower has said weiss told him he was blocked from bringing cases against hunter biden in california and the district of columbia. weiss is saying that's not true. he's not saying he didn't discuss potential charges in those jurisdictions but ultimately he didn't decide to bring those charges, and what he's saying is he had the full authority to do it if it was warranted and the sub text is the republican appointed, trump appointed u.s. attorney is saying there was no political interference in his prosecution. >> is he saying that flat out, that this was not politically interfered by garland, nobody from the administration, he went where he

nbc's ken dilanian following all the latest developments for us. ken, break down what happened in the courtroom and what's going to happen between now and next week. >> reporter: good afternoon, chris. mr. de oliveira made his first appearance in federal court to answer for these charges but wasn't able to enter a plea or have an arraignment because he didn't have local counsel licensed to practice in the southern district of florida. so he will have to come back and do that. the real significance of this case is not really mr. de oliveira who's a low-level employee at mar-a-lago. it's that this new superseding indictment makes an extraordinary allegation against the former president, alleging that he conspired to destroy evidence that was under a grand jury subpoena. it says essentially he ordered these two low-level employees, nauta and deol' oliveira, to go down to florida and make these surveillance tapes disappear. that's something that not even richard nixon was accused of. and the superseding indictment also says that classified war plans whi

nbc's ken dilanian is with me. what can you tell us about this breaking news, ken? this is what's known as a pattern and practice investigation into the entire department, whether it's systemically violating the civil rights of the citizens of memphis, it's separate from a department of justice criminal investigation into whether those five officers who have been charged in the murder of tyre nichols also violated his civil rights. so those are two separate tracks. this is a civil investigation. it's the ninth one that the justice department has opened under this administration into various police departments around the country, and generally it's done in cooperation with local officials as they work together to try to reform policing in these various jurisdictions and look at things like traffic stops and lethal force and nonlethal force and all those kind of things. and it takes weeks and weeks and months of scrutiny. they go through documents, they interview members of the force, and then eventually often these result in consent decrees where the department agree

nbc's ken dilanian is reporting from the justice department, what's in this new indictment, ken? >> this indictment really describes a sorted obstruction of justice conspiracy between the former president of the united states and two lower level employees. now, these are allegations, these men are all presumed innocent, but what it says is that donald trump got a subpoena last june, june of 2022, demanding surveillance footage from mar-a-lago, and he immediately called this new codefendant, carlos de oliveira, who is the property manager at mar-a-lago, and then constituently, walt nauta, the other codefendant, trump's butler makes an unscheduled trip to mar-a-lago, and then he is in conversation with mr. de oliveira, and they, according to the indictment, they go and scope out the surveillance cameras and where they are. a couple of days later, according to the indictment, mr. de oliveira is in contact with a fourth person, employee number 4, and he recounts to this person that the boss wants the footage deleted, and tavaras said he doesn't know how to do that, he doesn't think h

joining me now, justice and intelligence correspondent, ken dilanian, vaughn hillyard who's outside of trump's new jersey home in bedminster, also with, msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin as well. ken, start us off. bring us up to date. walk us through the latest addition, de oliveira, and walt nauta as well. >> there are two sets of significant allegations against donald trump in these three criminal charges. in the first one, he's charged with one additional count of willful retention of national defense information. that's related to the war document. that's deeply significant, especially because he denied it exists. now it's clear the government has it. the other two counts related to altering or destroying or mutilating documents. that's an alleged obstruction of justice scheme. a new scheme in the superseding indictment between donald trump and two employees. one his codefendant, and wallet walt nauta. shortly after donald trump received a subpoena demanding surveillance footage from mar-a-lago, he started this plan in motion. he called both walt nauta, and carlos de oliveira. nauta

nbc justice correspondent ken dilanian and former federal prosecutor shan wu with me here in studio, and former brooklyn prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst charles coleman. ken, let me start with all of this stuff, meetings behind bushels, tunnels with flashlights. talk about who this third co-defendant is and what else stands out to you in this superseing indictment? >> it's a remarkable new dimension to this case, chris. carlos de oliveira is described as the property manager at mar-a-lago. what prosecutors are alleging here is that further conspiracy to obstruct justice. they say that just three days after donald trump got a subpoena demanding video surveillance footage, his co-defendant and butler walt nauta went down on an unscheduled trip to mar-a-lago, met with de oliveira and discussed destroying that footage and others heard him saying the boss wanted the server deleted, which sounds like something out of a mob movie, not just a spy movie. now, what's not clear in this superseing indictment is whether the government has any evidence that any of that footage actually was destr

. >> joining me now is nbc news just and intelligence correspondent, ken dilanian, they lobbed a lotons at dr. wray, including that the fbi engaged in censuring conservatives online. and they cited a federal judge ruling that the government can't get involved. what did wray say to that? >> reporter: he didn't speak to the specifics of that, katy, because it's in litigation. it's being appealed by the justice department. a conservative judge is accusing the fbi of essentially being complicit in censorship. that's a hotly contested allegation, as are most of these things that the republicans brought up. you know, generally they are distortions, many of these issue, of real problems the fbi has acknowledgedment in the -- acknowledged. but instead of treating them as isolated problems issue the republicans are making the case that the fbi is a fundamentally corrupt agency, which frankly is ridiculous. and chris wray tried to be very sanguine and cool and calm and collected and at one point called that insane, reminding lawmakers that he is after all a registered republican who happened t

i want to bring in nbc justice correspondent ken dilanian, former republican congressman from florida, and msnbc political analyst, david jolly. also with us, former u.s. attorney in georgia, michael moore. good to have you here. what more can the jury learn from william russell. this is somebody who wasn't even mentioned in the j-6 committee report? >> that's one of the things that's so fascinating about his repeat appearances before the grand jury. it's a reminder that special counsel jack smith has information that even the january 6th committee, as thorough as that investigation was, did not have. and, you know, we can only speculate at this point about what will russell is bringing to the table. he was a young 30-something special assistant. deputy director of white house advanced operations, and as you said, he stayed with former president trump after he left office. he was paid by the save america pac. which figures into the investigation in terms of jack smith looking at how money was raised in terms of allegations of election fraud. one of the things he may bring to the table

joining me now, nbc's ken dilanian and msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin, good to have both of you here.tion, lisa. did donald trump admit he lost to anybody in the days after the election is. what does it mean that prosecutors are asking this question? >> well, i think, chris, it goes to his knowledge and intent, to the extent that he's admitting that he lost but is still telling the general public via tweets, via fund-raising solicitations, and even telling people like mike pence, for example, that he wants to continue contesting the election, that's a core element of intent that goes to a number of the statutes that could be used to prosecute him and others involved in continued efforts to overturn the election. now, as to your question, who did he say it to? you know, "the new york times" reporting is that jared kushner thought very much that his father-in-law genuinely believed that the election was stolen from him, but there are a number of others who have told either the special counsel, the january 6th committee, or both that they heard trump say that he knew he lost. those peopl

with us, to start off our coverage this hour, nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard outside donald trump's golf club in bedminster, new jersey. and mary mccord, former acting assistant attorney general for national security and msnbc legal analyst. so, ken, what more do we know about the new person charged in this case? >> good morning, jose. carlos de oliveira, the property manager at mar-a-lago, his lawyer has declined to comment and he is expected in court on monday to answer these charges and he's charged with a stand alone count of lying to federal investigators about his actions moving the boxes. so, they have significant leverage over him, but as you said, what this new indictment lays out is a disturbing new dimension to the obstruction of justice portion of this case. these are allegations, but what they allege is that essentially donald trump ordered his employees to delete this footage, surveillance footage at mar-a-lago, three days after he received a grand jury subpoena demanding the footage. when you read this ind

joining me now is nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian.n december. >> that's right. they're saying that the notion of a speedy trial is not just some government preference. it's a foundational principle of the american judicial system. the trump team is acting like it's an imposition. it's in the interest of the american people to get a speedy trial. the excerpt that you had on the screen there also has the prosecution attacking and i found this very interesting, what has been trump's central defense in this case. which is that somehow the presidential records act makes these charges go away. or absolve some of criminal conduct here. what they have said is that is so outside the norm. they call it baseless, borderline frivolous, and they say they're ready to argue against that, if they make that argument, they shouldn't use it as an excuse to call this case complex, and ask for an indefinite, you know, indeterminate delay, katy. >> ken dilanian, thank you very much. >>> joining me now is former prosecutor and nbc news legal analyst, charle

and legal correspondent ken dilanian. great group this morning. >>> trump awaits a likely indictment for the overturning of the january 6th election results. he was hit with charges in a separate case yesterday. in the southern district of florida, federal prosecutors added two new counts of obstruction and one of willfully retaining national defense information in the case centered around his mishandling of classified documents at mar-a-lago. those new charges laid out in a superseding indictment which alleges trump directed two employees at his palm beach estate to destroy security camera footage shortly after the justice department issued a subpoena to obtain the same video in june of last year. one of the employees, trump's valet, walt nauta, was previously charged with trump. now, property manager carlos d. alevera was charged in yesterday's indictment. the two men walked with a flashlight during a dark tunnel in mar-a-lago to scope out a room where boxes of classified documents were being watched by security cameras

let's bring nbc news and justice correspondent ken dilanian. the beat waiting to see what happened after that meeting with trump as lawyers. an indictment to be expected in jack smith's other case. this, though, is an additional defendant in the mar-a-lago case. tell us what we understand to be happening there. >> that's right, nicolle, and our information at this point is limited. all we know is that man's name has been added to the docket. we don't know if he's been charged. we can't say the nature of the charges. in fact -- we are awaiting the formal news release that the justice department typically sends out when something like this happens, and we have not seen it yet. we don't know what his official status is, but as you said, he's been the subject of reporting with things done to the pool at mar-a-lago and questions about whether there was any intentional effort to destroy evidence, including boxes of documents at mar-a-lago. and we'll just have to wait and see what exactly is his status with regard to the case. right now we're just say

nbc's ken dilanian, thank you so very much. on on legal costs in the first half of this year to defend trump, his advisers and some others. what's more, trump's save america pac is financing legal work that is now raising questions from prosecutors about potential conflicts of interest. that's according to people familiar with the matter. trump advisers told "the post" that the pac, which raises most of its money from small-dollar contributions, is footing the legal bills for almost anyone drawn into the numerous trump investigations who request help from the former president and his advisers. joining us to talk about is one of the co-authors of this piece of reporting, "the washington post"'s devlin barrett. he covers national security and law enforcement for the paper. great to see you. please explain the potential issue here with the representation of the two who have been charged in the documents case, we mpgsed them, valet walt nauta and the property manager, carlos de oliveira, and the i.t. worker who looks to have provide

i want to bring in ken dilanian, and charles coleman. what do the witnesses who have been called so far tell us? we know they are reporters and producers stakesing out that area. what do the people so far tells you where the investigation stands? >> dozens of witnesses have testified and talked to these prosecutors. one thing that is clear, this investigation goes well beyond the attack on the capitol on january 6th. in fact, connecting donald trump to that has always been a tenuous legal leap. but it's clear that jack smith is looking at the out ways that people around donald trump and perhaps donald trump himself tried to subvert the lawful transfer of power. principally including the scheme to put forth fake electors, who were saying that donald trump won the election when they knew he did not, and gathering evidence on what they're approaches as a conspiracy. they talked to everybody from vice president pence to half a dozen secret service agencies to numerous trump aides, to a lot of state officials, a sprawling, praulg group of wit

let's start with the reporting and garrett haake yasmin vossoughian and ken dilanian. and also with us, charles coleman. ken, you first. talk to us about the breaking news with the grand jury, what does it mean? >> what it means is that this grand jury is not returning any indictments today. so if we were going to learn about an indictment, only possibility that leaves is that it happened earlier and it has been under seal. and if we're learning about it today, that means that it would be unsealed again today. again, this is based on reporting and tea leaves we're reading. but this news makes it clear that whatever is happening today, this grand jury that is meeting behind closed doors is not returning an indictment. that we know for sure. >> and so what is going on at the courthouse right now? >> reporter: this was just breaking in the last couple minutes or so. ryan riley inside the courthouse speaking with the courtroom deputy. and as ken laid out, we're not expecting any type of indictment coming out today. and that being said, it is curious though that the grand ju

joining me is nbc's justice correspondent, ken dilanian and harry litman. s is a sprawling investigation. we outlined some of who they have talked to. do we have any sense of how much work remains to be done here? >> not entirely but it feels like they're getting close to the end here. we shorthand this as the january 6th investigation but really, smith was tasked with investigating any potential violations of law thaes the ladies and gentlemen of the order. and what he appears to be doing here is investigating what looks like from the way they look at it, a conspiracy to disrupt the lawful transfer of power not only with the january 6th attack but with the scheme to have false electors to raise money around that. the list ranges from mike pence to secret service agents to state officials. >> newt gingrich was one of them apparently. >> it's a really far reaching investigation. remains to be seen what they do with it but they're pursuing this case. >> i'm trying to develop the january 6th language from anytime we report on this. the special counsel is focuse

in the response to the filing, the assistant special counsel saying -- joining me now is ken dilaniande and "new york times" chief white house correspondent peter baker. ken, first of all, the prosecutors here kept politics out of their response. they didn't respond to the trump team saying that this is a joe biden prosecution when it's not even a merrick garland prosecution. you have a special counsel. all of the other issues about the campaign. they didn't respond to the politics at all. >> they didn't. they pointed out that the right to a speedy trial is not some favor the prosecution grants. it's the bedrock of the constitution. they really squarely attacked what donald trump's lawyers say is his defense, that supposedly the presidential records act makes these charges inappropriate. they said, that's ridiculous. presidential records act is not a criminal statute. they say -- they call it a baseless and bordering on frivolous argument that should not be as an excuse to delay the trial. >> let me read an excerpt. they write -- boom. >> yes. it's strong language but deservedly so. p

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joining me now is justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian and back with us andrew weissmanned documents case, the indictment came four days after donald trump's attorneys met with the prosecutors. can we use that as a template for the expected 2020 indictment? >> there are no hard and fast rules. i think that's a reasonable supposition, particularly because the last domino has fallen into place, that meeting between donald trump's lawyers and the special counsel's office, a source directly familiar with that meeting told us it was a final pitch by donald trump's lawyers arguing against his indictment in this case. this source did not think it changed any minds. all signs are pointing to this indictment being imminent. we don't think anything is happening today. we expect the grand to meet tuesday. we will be watching and waiting. the significance of this case is just enormous. as important as the classified documents case is -- you and i both cover the intelligence community. we know how serious this is about classified documents. the allegations about trying to delay and su

let's bring in nbc news correspondent ken dilanian, maya wiley is back with us. is making and whether or not you think she is leaning one way or the other. >> sure. i covered that hearing down in florida which was closed to most people. i would say that the post is right. she seemed to brush aside the notion that because donald trump is running for president and he is so busy and has other trials, that they can't possibly try this case before the november 2024 presidential election. and his lawyers have also argued he can't get a fair trial because of all the media coverage. she didn't have patience for that argument. she seemed very skeptical of the justice department's desire and special counsel's desire to try this case as early as december and seemed sympathetic to the arguments from trump's lawyers there is so much discovery, so many documents, 1.1 million pages of documents turned over to them and 1,000 days of surveillance video, that they -- you know, it's going to take a while to try this case. it would be optimistic, actually, to get it -- to get the tr

. >> ken dilanian, thank you. >>> aretha franklin's sons battle it out over the late music legends estatenklin's former entertainment lawyer of 28 years joins me next. y unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. so, no matter what, i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. we really don't want people to think of feeding food like ours is spoiling their dogs. good, real food is simple. it looks like food, it smells like food, it's what dogs are supposed to be eating. no living being should ever eat processed food for every single meal of their life. it's amazing to me how many people write in about their dogs changing for the better. the farmer's dog is just our way to help people take care of them. ♪ this week is your chance to try any subway footlong for free. like the subway series menu. just buy any footlong in the app, and get one free. everyone loves free stuff chuck. can we get peyton a footlong? get it before it's gone. on the subway app. >>> the last wishes of the queen of soul, aretha franklin, remain an open question and a debate am

nbc news justice correspondent ken dilanian is there and former prosecutor glenn kirschner. of the grand jury have been spotted there. what do we know about what's happening? >> reporter: there's not a lot that we do know at this point. what we know is members of the grand jury, the grand jury that we're focused on, started coming into the building around 8:30 this morning. we're making an assumption they're in session. no members of the prosecution team, jack smith, none of them have been spotted. again, they're sneaky making their way into this building. there's lots of entrances. i'm in front of the courthouse to give you a sense of where i am. i am looking at the capitol over my left shoulder. behind the courthouse there's various entrances you can get in via van or car. just because we haven't seen them, doesn't mean they're not here. will they, will they not vote on this today? we don't know. let's say that do. let me walk you through what's going to happen from what we know would normally happen. let's remember, this is the former president of the united states. this

specifically, what was ken dilanian -- carlos de oliveira's role in this. there is legal strategy here as well because remember, walt nauta, his lawyer signaled he wanted to get out of the case with trump. he wants a separate trial. but what this new indictment does is that it ties walt nauta that much more closely to trump. and it creates an allegation that nauta is essentially going on a secret mission for the former president. i think that dynamic will serve to, among other things, undercut any efforts by it will not add to get out of this case. >> is that your assessment? do you have any reporting on maybe a cooperating witness here? is that why these charges are coming to light now as opposed to earlier with the first indictments? >> i think that there was some work that still needed to be done on the carlos fiala vera piece that is investigation, and prosecutors didn't want to wait to result that, and part two, there are clearly, as this indictment shows, cooperating witnesses had provided evidence against carlos de oliveira, and others in this case.

nbc's ken dilanian is standing by with the justice department.with us, former house committee spokesperson hannah mull daven. katie, what can we expect from today's hearing? >> reporter: good morning. we're outside the lebron james lawrence king federal courthouse. the different one that donald trump was arraigned in a few weeks ago, but the same that walt nauta was arraigned in. there's a very small crowd here, definitely not the seen we've seen for prior arraignments. however, the biggest question is, because i just checked pacer, there's been a filing of local counsel on behalf of carlos deoliveira. if you are are not licensed in florida, you cannot participate. deolive era should hear the nature of the charges. his bond status should be addressed. when it comes to the entering of a flee, cue probably won't see that until the actual arraignment. walt nauta pushed his arraignment out on two separate occasions, claiming he couldn't find local counsel. as of right now there's no local counsel that has appeared on behalf of carlos deolive era. >>

so let's get right to nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian, nbc's garrett haake, former u.s. attorney joyce vance and "washington post" investigations reporter. ken, let me get to you first on the ground in florida. former president trump broke the news, as he has done before, saying he received this so-called target letter from the special counsel. what does that mean, his receiving a target letter for the special counsel? >> reporter: peter, what it means, he's almost certainly going to be indicted in this case. it's not a guarantee, but i heard danny ceballos say he's never heard of a case where someone got a target letter and wasn't indicted. what it also means is that essentially a formality, the special counsel jack smith is giving donald trump one last chance to tell his side of the story, essentially, to the grand jury. what mr. trump said was that the letter gave him four days as of sunday when he received it to appear before the grand jury. no one thinks that's going to happen. that would be perilous for him to do that given that the case is at a stage

i want to bring in nbc news justice correspondent ken dilanian.you've been burning the candle on both ends. thank you so much for being here with us. i heard you describe this as the third inning for the legal troubles of donald trump. jack smith's other probe dealing with election interference. where does that stand this morning? >> good morning, ana, yeah, with apologies for the baseball metaphor, i made that assessment because as important as this classified documents case is -- and it's hugely significant, as someone who's covered the intelligence community for more than a decade -- the case involving essentially an attempt to delay and stop the lawful transfer of power before january 6th is orders of magnitude more significant for our democracy, and it's both the federal case and the atlanta case, and here's where it stands. donald trump, as we know, got a target letter. that means he's almost certain to be indicted and a series of steps generally would take be ever that happens. yesterday donald trump's lawyers we learned had a last final me

. >> joining me now is nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian and punch bowl newstebc contributor. >> the bottom line these whistle blowers mr. shaply you saw there and another man joseph ziegler are making serious allegations of irregularity. bottom line they say all the prosecutors in the case want today charge hunter biden with felonies and ultimately that didn't happen and they say there was income made from burisma back in 2014 and those weren't reported. a lot w of the people they saids disputes with and disagreed with weregr career officials and som of itar happened during the tru administration. what they say is if you look under the hood of any high profile tax case or any criminal case you're going to find these kind of disagreements and doesn't mean there was a political conserious. i have some reporting today mr. shaply is represented by an organization esempower oversigh that includes some republican legislative staffers that have spent a t lot of time investigating democrats and going after the fbi.af so that's the concern here among democrats.mo i thin

angle with our reporters and experts including nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian, nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard. let's start with yasmin vossoughian outside the d.c. courtroom. we know the grand jury meets tuesdays and thursdays, but not today. do we know why? >> we don't. we have all been trying to kind of figure that out. you mentioned those thousands of pages of documents handed over by bernie kerik that broke on the air yesterday. maybe it's because of that. maybe, in fact, it's not a delay at all and the plan is thursday. we're listening as to when this thing is actually going to drop. we we do know is they haven't met so far. the latest the grand jury convened is 12:30 eastern dime. right now it's around 3:01. the assumption is they won't be meeting today. then we're going to look ahead. you mentioned earlier, tuesdays and thursdays is when they're normally convened. what would typically happen on thursday if, in fact, that was the day in which the grand jury that we're watching -- one grand jury did convene today, just not the one we're focused on.

ken dilanian is inside the courthouse. paul butler is still with us. so garrett, everyone wants to know when this trial will happen. what are the chances we get that answer today? >> i can assure you no one wants to know answer more than i do. i think the chapss are reasonable that we'll get an answer today. we've seen filings from both parties about the date they would like to have this trial. the government's filing is pretty strong. they think there's no legal basis for donald trump to try to push this trial off indefinitely. they've suggested a december time frame should be enough to solve all the legal questions, particularly around how to use the classified material at the very heart of this case in a trial. of course, there is a political imperative that is the key thing. if you're donald trump, your best defense for this case may be to have it happen after you win re-election. that's the hope. and then perhaps you can make this whole thing go away. that seem to be the way the government is handling mr. trump's filings in this matter. we'll see

justice and intelligence reporter ken dilanian, who is in florida where, by the way, trump's legal team a hearing in his other federal case involving the classified documents. also with us, danielle cohen higgins, county commissioner in dade county. garrett, what more do we know about this post by donald trump about being informed that he is a target of the january 6th probe by the special counsel? >> reporter: ana, this kicks off a familiar pattern here for donald trump, where he essentially scoops the justice system, announcing ahead of time in the new york case, he was to be indicted, in the documents case, that he had been indicted, in this case, that he is the target of an investigation in which he believes he will be indicted. the former president posting two lengthy posts on truth social, laying out the fact he says he received this target letter on sunday night after a weekend spent at a conservative conference in florida. telling him he has four days to report to the grand jury, which he says, and which i think ken will support, almost always means an arrest, an indictment is c

let's bring in nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. good morning.ning, willie. we're getting a lot of smoke signals, and it's hard to know exactly how to interpret them, but i think you're right, it is very possible there could be a vote on an indictment today. it's also possible this could push a little bit because, let's not forget, hunter biden is going to plead guilty to the charges in his case on wednesday in delaware. i'm just throwing this out there, but it could be possible that there's some people thinking it wouldn't be a great idea to have all this trump news erupting on a day when hunter biden is facing justice because it would be inevitable complaints that that was a setup when, in fact, of course, it probably wouldn't be. but people may be thinking about that. look, we're all on indictment watch, as you said, and the one thing i think about this coming indictment is that it's going to be filled with more news and surprises and things we didn't know than perhaps the one on the classified documents case in florida, willie. >> hey, ken, i