ken lieberthal, what about that? i mean, off to a wobbly start? maybe hasn't been consistent? how do you see the obama administration handling of human rights. >> i would give them somewhat higher marks than sophie. i think the administration decided from the start that china's major power. we have an array of very, very serious issues that we have to deal with them on. nuclear proliferation. north korea. now the south china sea. a vast array of economic and trade issues. human rights issues. so the administration's approach has been quite clear from the start. we will stress human rights and push that as effectively as we can but we can't let any one of these issues, nuclear proliferation, human rights, economic and trade, whatever it is, to be a pre-condition of making progress in the other areas because each of these areas is vital for u.s. security, prosperity, and our relationships throughout the world. >> woodruff: sophie richardson, what about that point that in his view human rights can't be a pre-condition? >> well, look, i think while there are issues that don't nece