i'm ken paulson, executive director of the first amendment center, and we're pleased to inaugurate a new series called whitney dialogues at the first amendment center. the cohost for this series is the director of the whitney museum of american art, max anderson. we're delighted to be working with the first amendment center on an exciting and important series of conversations with american artists. with this series, we'll have an opportunity to talk with the people who push the boundaries that society often sets for itself in the arts. our special guest today is an artist who came to prominence in the late 1980s with "fluid abstractions," a series of works that lit a bonfire in the u.s. congress and subsequently was decried and defended worldwide, a man who has continued to explore topics that others may see as off limits, andres serrano. thank you. that had to be a difficult period for you, a piece of art you created that involved a crucifix immersed in your own urine. i've heard observers say that if you did not know the content, you would think it was a very respectful piece of ar

i'm ken paulson. since the founding of jefferson airplane in 1965, our guest has produced an extraordinary body of music, sometimes popular, sometimes provocative, sometimes both. we're delighted to welcome rock and roll hall of fame member paul kantner. [applause] not long ago, paul, the washington post called you "the political conscience and space cadet of the jefferson airplane." do you plead guilty as charged? oh, and more. were you really the political force behind a very political band? no, no, we're a very apolitical band, if you really analyze it. and--we have the luxury of coming from san francisco, which is very nutritious for off-the-beam, off-the-normal-beam kind of people and nurtures them, really, in its own way. and we, in contrast to, say, berkeley, for example, in the '60s or the s.d.s. or the weathermen, chose and got away with creating our own alternate quantum, if you will, universe: this type of place where we-- rather than going up against city hall and fighting city hall, like

i'm ken paulson. our guest today has been both a pioneer and a driving force behind hip-hop. he's the founder of def jam records, chairman of rush communications. he's russell simmons. thanks for joining us here today. thank you for having me. i read very recently-- i think it was salon that described you as "not the inventor of rap but the man most responsible for its success." guilty as charged? well, i would say that i have been part of a process, that i don't--i don't believe it would have been a problem for it to spread without my input, but i was a part of the process, and it was--it's been an amazing ride over the last 20-some-odd years, and i've watched it evolve. you've got a fascinating new book called life and death: sex, drugs, money, and god, which covers pretty much everything there, and it tells the story-- not necessarily in that order. well, it tells the story of your career, including the first moment you heard hip-hop and your reaction to it. could you talk about that? i was in a club on 125th street, charles gallery, and i walked in, and there was this guy