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and unlike somebody like ken starr who was always more of a political operative as he was an investigator, may just pursue the russian investigation and not go off pursuing different tangents come as ken started for five years. >> martha: john, thank you very much. joining us now, brit hume. brit, good evening to you. your thoughts on this big development this evening. >> i have always thought that these special councils, special prosecutors are dubious ideas. but while it is a dubious idea, it's a good appointment. bob mueller is a universally respected, has reputation as a totally straight shooter is widely recognized. he is the kind of grown-up who, in that job, may not feel compelled, as some previous special prosecutors have, to find a crime, whether one turns up at first or not. in other words, i don't know that robert mueller is a kind of guy who will turn into captain ahab pursuing the great white whale. remember the case of the special prosecutor patrick fitzgerald who was named to investigate the leak about -- in the valerie plane case. remember that? he found out almost immedia

it wasn't just ken starr.he lawrence walsh investigation went six plus years into iran contra. >> but in is a slightly different scenario. the special counsel doesn't have as wide ranging authority as both ken starr did in the '23450i7'90s. >> that's correct. the independent counsel statute went out in 1999. but a special counsel can go as long as they need to. i am hoping it is like jacob stein who went for six months with ed meesh. you can go when you're focused. that's why i'm happy it's mueller, because he has a very accomplished record in the investigation of real crime. so republicans who want to move forward with their agenda, tax reform, the passage of the repeal of obamacare, a great deal of getting to the 350 ship navy, repairing the national security damage of the last eight years, they're happy to get this in a box and under bob mueller's direction. he can't be fired unless he does something egregious. >> ned, i hope you saw this story in "the new york times" today, detailing how james comey felt a

arch bald and ken starr. the world was going to end. everybody in washington was furious you move ahead to bill clinton and all of this never mattered. it was only about sex. when archbald cox was fired by nixon, it was a massacre. and i just look at this and this is astonishing. if president trump apoints a very well respected, a federal judge or someone of that nature, a career fbi agent, this will vanish and up until then it's a circus, a show and it's terrible. and i'm not blaming all of you guys. it's the way it works and i've seen it before. >> no one ever fired ken starr i should point out. do you believe this had anything to do with the russia investigation? >> no. i think it's very obvious. i've been printing out statements from democrats demanding his resignation and all the sudden tonight they're defending him. it's hypocrisy to the max. they don't have anything about russia. if it's there, get it out. and as i've said before, i'm all for an independent commission. no special prosecutors. they don't go well. but an independen

>> the special prosecutor statute as applied to ken starr is no longer in existence. a special prosecutor would have to be provided and named by the department of justice. there's been a lot of complaints from democrats about the need for a special prosecutor over the weekend. some democrats said they would refuse to consider the name of the nominee in confirmation hearings until a special prosecutor is appointed. i asked sean spicer. here's how he responded. >> there's frankly no need for a special prosecutor. you have two senate committees looking into this, the fbi is conducting their own review. and i think if you even look at what acting director mccabe said, they have the resources they need. >> one thing that didn't come up at the briefing, records of a massive staff shakeup. i'm toll a massive staff shakeup is "nonsense." there's some talk there may be changes to the communications shop after what happened with the comey firing last tuesday. also told that the white house chief of staff reince priebus who has been in a lot of reporting "on the bubble" since ja

if you think back to the clinton days and ken starr, a special counsel, a special prosecutor can start as one thing and become quite another, and to be very, very difficult for a white house. on the other hand, what is good news for this white house tonight is the fact that the president's now perhaps can get back focused on taxes and health care and the other things he was elected to do while a highly regarded special counsel is now focused on the russia matter. to your question into your point, if this president has nothing to worry about, he will now have a highly respected investigator who will look at this and if there is nothing there at the end of it, the american people can have confidence that we can finally move on from this. if if robert mueller does find a crime or crimes, that's a whole other matter and it's going to get very difficult for this president because of the fact that he's known as someone with great integrity. >> jesse: it could give the president some breathing room to enact his agenda in the next couple years. let's take it around the horn, kimberly guilfoyle

on the other hand you may have a lot of democrats who will cite the ken starr example.ay we want a full accounting -- back when we had independent counsel statute, we want a full accounting of what you found, we want you to report that to congress, because you have a lot of democrats who are using the "i" word already, and they're going to want some insight into that fbi investigation whether it comes up with criminal charges or not. i think you will have a lot of democrats who will say, that's what ken starr did, he wrote a report to congress, that they used for a basis for impeaching bill clinton. at the least congress is going to demand some full accounting of the fbi investigation. >> as a democrat, would you accept if mueller says there's no illegality there, my work is done. would you accept that? >> i think everybody has to respect it. he is somebody put in a position respected by people from both sides of the island everybody thinks he'll do a thorough job. i am certain he will. i think in the court of public opinion, which is pretty expansive beyond the work of

>> this is not ken starr, for those old enough to remember ken starr was investigating everything everywhere and could not be fired. the law that authorized such investigations was ended on the logic that they encourage kind of -- they encouraged investigators to keep investigating until they found anything such as the consensual relationship between clinton and monica lewinsky. what this is, robert mueller reports up through doj's 10 of command to rod rosenstein. he had brought authority to prove his own subpoenas, that kind of thing. if rosenstein refuses to approve certain things, then he has to go to congress and tell them about it. ultimately, mueller could still be fired by donald trump. he is still technically working for donald trump. and the one of the concern i have is beyond the scope -- a key part of the scope question is whether or not mueller will be able to investigate the firing of jim comey. there is language in yesterday's --er that says he can invest investigate anyone obstructing his investigation. but if you recall, the cia leak case, which is a close parallel to what we

guess who is the most unimpeachable guy character wise, ken starr, they destroy him.'m not saying they will do that to mueller. >> they had to do it. if it wasn't him, it was the acting ag there. what they had to do was restore confidence. we know zero evidence of collusion. unlike watergate, there is no crime at the heart of this. when you see people starting to tell stories out of school, or inappropriate -- >> sean: can we open up the uranium one deal, the real russia collusion story. all the people involved in the deal, sent believes of the foundation, can we look at that too? >> i think this has gone too far -- >> sean: so the answer is no. >> i believe what goes around comes around. a lot of the bitterness that exists now tort at donald trump in washington, d.c., has to do with the fact that nobody expected him to win it, so election 2016 is the prime cause of what we are saying and also benghazi. it was dragged out on a lot of very reckless things were said about hillary clinton and other others. this is in many ways, but it's karma with revenge tinted in. now

josh is right to compare to ken starr. an he be stken starr star isn't exactly what he ended up with. but the order giving mueller responsibility for this said you can go after anything that arises out of the russia investigation. that means the president's firing of comey. what it also says is you can look at what the vice president knew, which has not really received scrutiny right now. and the last part of the order from rosenstein and mueller says you have the power to prosecute federal crimes. so i don't know how long this will last, but we can expect last iteration won't be like the first. >> you menoned mike nce. and that is a part of the story today that a lot of folks are starti to turn the attention to. precisely what did the vice president know,s when d when diw it roiters reporting on sources who say that the trump campaign had at least 18 undisclosed contacts with with russians. you might remember back in january the vice president was asked about that on cbs's "face the nation." hear is that exchange. >> did a

ken starr was one. there were a whole bunch of them during the reagan and bush administrations and the clinton administration. that statute expired in 1999. when if did, there were a lot of people dissatisfied with the way the statute had operated. congress as a result never reenacted another statute. instead the justice department promulgated regulations that provide that the attorney general, or if the attorney general is recused as he is in this particular instance, the deputy attorney general can himself appoint a special counsel as it's called in the regulations. and under that rubric, the deputy attorney general himself in this case would pick a special counsel from outside the government, somebody who the regulations prescribe has to be someone of integrity and great experience and the like. and in this case deputy attorney general rosenstein would then give the jurisdictional statement to that person and say, here's what i'm asking you to investigate, these people or these things. and that's how

. >> reporter: on "this george put the question to ken starr. >> if you were looking into this case,ould you be demanding tapes from the white house? >> oh, absolutely. the investigation has got to be thorough. that means you go where you think the truth is. >> reporter: for his part, comey is going on with his life. democrats say they want to hear his side of the story, testifying in public on capitol hill. less than two weeks ago, comey confirmed he was still investigationing possible collusion between representatives of the trump campaign and russia. trump admits that was a factor in his decision to fire comey, but insists it's >> and david joins us live. sources close to comey now say he would be open to testifying be publicly? >> reporter: that's right, this would be about the circumstances of his firing, not details about the investigation. tom? >> thank you. >>> and information about north korea's latest missile launch. gloria riviera with the reaction. >> reporter: that launch raising troubling questions about the increasing sophistication of north korea's missile program. >>

. >> reporter: today, george stephanopoulos put it to ken starr, the independent counsel whose investigation of the monica lewinsky scandal led to the impeachment of bill clinton. >> would you demand tapes from the white house if they exist? >> absolutely. the investigation has got to be thorough, and that means you go where you think the truth is. >> reporter: for his part, comey is going on with his life. last night attending a musical here in d.c. democrats say they want to hear his side of the story, testifying in public on capitol hill. >> jim comey deserves his chance to lay out to the american public his side of the facts. >> reporter: less than two weeks ago, comey confirmed he was still investigating possible collusion between representatives of the trump campaign and russia to influence the november election. president trump readily admits that investigation was a factor in his decision to fire comey. but he insisted to fox news last night it's a dead end. >> there is no collusion. we have nothing to do with russia and everything else. >> reporter: david wright, abc news, washingto

i lived through the ken starr whitewater investigation. of advice for the staff. one, try and keep your head down and do the job as best you can. during the clinton administration, i think they were pretty smart in that they separated the people who actually had to deal with the investigation on a day-to-day basis -- separate lawyers, separate communications people, so that the rest of the staff could really focus on the job at hand and working for the american people. i would also say, you know, strap yourself in and prepare yourself for any possible outcome. remember, ken starr started investigating a real estate deal and ended up with an affair with an intern. so, who knows where this investigation is going to lead. bob mueller has a really broad mandate, and he's going to follow the facts and the evidence where it leads. and finally, i would advise him to get a lawyer. this is a very stressful time. and even if you're not in any way, you know, doing work with the investigation or you think you're not involved in any way -- for instance

steve: ken starr, thank you very much.or starting your day with us. the fate of the trump administration border order now in the hands of three judges appointed by former president bill clinton. the white house arguing the court should not be allowed to second guess the safety of the american people. the executive immigration order on citizens from muslim majority nations would give the trump administration 90 days to create a new extreme vetting process. a soldier in parachute training slams right into high voltage power lines. stop what you're doing and take a look at this. that is frightening. the parachute blowing up and in a flash of light when the female soldier hits the power lines. she drops to the ground. fellow soldiers rushing over to help. according to the sri lankan army that woman walked away with minor burns. she is lucky. falling short of the perfect crime. have you seen this? clumsy shoplifter trips and lands flat on her face. everyone is laughing. after running out of a wal-mart with more than $600 in sto

and paul and i were at the white house together at the time of the ken starr investigation. and paul, as a reporter, i remember that this president, at the time, bill clinton, could not really push a lot of the initiatives through, because that was really hanging over the head of the administration. but also, at the same time, they tried to move things through, but what was the overshadowing piece, that ken starr investigation. >> david gergen, you've worked in white houses under investigation. >> absolutely. and listen, the republicans still control the house and the senate, right? and if things are bogged down, you can't blame mueller and the investigation, nor even the leaks, frankly. you know, they've got very controversial legislation up there and the president needs to take a leave when he gets back. but i keep wondering, and paul, i would be curious about your view on this. should jared kushner think about taking a leave of absence while he clears this up? because it's going to be such a distraction inside the white house. and he is radioactive. >> i hadn't thought of

. >> reporter: today george stephanopoulos put it to ken starr, the independent counsel whose investigation of the monica lewinsky scandal led to the impeachment of bill clinton. >> if you were looking into this case, would you be demanding tapes from the white house, if indeed they do exist? >> oh, absolutely. the investigation has got to be thorough. and that means you go where you think the truth is. >> reporter: for his part, comey is going on with his life. last night, attending a musical here in d.c. democrats say they want to hear his side of the story, testifying in public on capitol hill. >> jim comey deserves his chance to lay out to the american public his side of the facts. >> reporter: less than two weeks ago, comey confirmed he was still investigating possible collusion between the trump campaign and russia. to influence the november election. president trump admits that was a part of his decision to fire comey. but insists it's a dead end. >> there is no collusion. we have nothing to do with russia and everything else. >> david, sources close to comey now say he would be open

>> reporter: well, we don't have independent counsel anymore like ken starr during whitewater.hat law expired in 1999. so now we have these special counsel. they do have the right to do anything a normal federal prosecutor would do if he wants to expand the investigation, though, he'll have to get permission from the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein. but it seems like at this point if mueller asor lester. >> pete, thank you. >>> there is another story break income washington involving comments reportedly made by a powerful republican about trump, putin and money. let's go to our chief white house correspondent. halle jackson, what can you tell us about that? >> reporter: lester, this is a potential explosive report that could do real damage between the relationship with president trump and the washington leaders. the washington post is reporting that house majority leader kevin mccarthy told republican colleagues quote i think there's two people putin pays, rohrbaker and trump referring to the now president and the congressman. when lawmakers laughed, mccarthy added, swea

all of you guys i'm say this is the way it works and i've seen it before. >> no one ever fooird ken starr i should point out. >> no but any -- >> do you believe that this had anything to do with the russia investigation? >> no, i think it's just very obvious. i mean you know in the time i've been sitting here i've been printing out one statement after another from democrats who demanded his resignation. harry reid, chuck schumer all the people auchlds tonight they're defending him. it's just hypocrisy to the max they don't have anything about russia if it's there get it out. and one other thing, anderson. i'm all for as i've said before an independent commission no special prosecutors enough of those they don't go well but an independent commission of republicans and democrats on the style of the 911 commission loets do it get everybody director come o president obama let's discuss leaks all of it get it out david. >> it is hitting f 5 on the political analysis key, to see democrats are being hoimts. you can hold two opposing thoughts in your head at the same time. there is a basis for ji

ken starr was sitting where he is sitting said whatever do you don't do this it didn't turn out well.e result malmat. ainsley: special counsel to look over there is a difference. steve: what happened at the fbi and the department of justice with mr. rosenstein, apparently, keep in mind, he was against the special counsel idea until over the last couple of days apparently his thinking evolved to conclude that a special counsel was needed to prove to the public the investigation was going to be thorough and impartial because it has become so political. president trump last night about an hour after it was issued said this: as i have stated many times a thorough investigation will confirm what we already know there was no collusion between my campaign and any foreign entity. i look forward to this matter concluding quickly. in the meantime i will never stop fighting for the people and the issues that matter most to the future of our country. john mccain has some advice for the president and that is this. just whatever information you got, get it out as quickly as possible. let's get this

if you look back at the history of these investigations, the ken starr investigation the 1990's, for instance, i merely ended up focusing on monica lewinsky. up the exam ended article with you. the investigation and the bush administration, which was a case that jim comey appointed patrick fitzgerald to that investigation. that ended up focusing on scooter libby, vice president cheney's top aide. not because he was the original leaker, but because his obstruction of the underlying investigation. i think part of this challenge with this administration is they need to be worried not just about what happened in the past, but the actions that they have taken and will take over the course of this investigation. host: before we get to calls for our guest, what do you make of what the president tweeted recently, the single greatest witchhunt he said of a politician in american history. he also reportedly told russian officials that comey is quote in a job -- a nut job. does this matter to his work? guest: i don't think it fundamental in matters to his work. manyshington, there different opi

i don't think they want a sort of modern day ken starr running around snooping in the investigation. that is why you see focus on it. you saw in the hearings where members of the republican party were saying well, did it affect the election? should we be digging into it? to which the problem is this. it doesn't matter if it affected the election. it is still a crime. if the trump campaign helped, that is still a crime and worth investigating. >> that image from yesterday just sticks with me of lavrov laughing at the media when asking about the comey firing and russia investigation and secretary of state saying mum. irony in that. panel, thank you. >>> when all the investigations are done, where does it lead you? that is what alisyn was talking about. what can congress get done? was this always residing with the fbi? does the president have to answer to the law here ? we debate it next. i count on my dell small business advisor for tech advice. with one phone call, i get products that suit my needs and i get back to business. ♪ ♪ before you invest in a car, remember, it's not just the

bill clinton was able to do that in 1998 with the ken starr investigation into lewinsky.his president do it is very much in doubt. yesterday first he tweeted that in a meeting with a number of us national news anchors, the lunch meeting at the white house he went on the record. i can tell you his staff was just shaking their heads saying he thought it was a witch hunt and dividing the country, the russians were laughing at us and he was asked about it at the joint press conference with the columbian president and did it again. politics 101 would say take advantage of this, even long term as a threat to you. take advantage of the an appointment of a special counsel. let's focus on the agenda. this president doesn't seem to be able to do that. in so many instances he is his own worst enemy. >> shannon: you know what everyone thinks about the special counsel here in d.c. they think no matter how this thing starts out somebody ends up getting indicted every time. it has to be a worry for the white house. >> absolutely. you have a guy like bob mueller, aggressive and while i'm

when you look back at history of these investigations, they can start investigation for example -- ken starr investigation on monica lewinsky. the valerie plame leak investigation which was a case that actually jim comey when deputy attorney general pointed -- appointed his friend patrick fitzgerald to have the investigation. that ended up focusing on scooter libby, vice president cheney's top aide. not because he was the original leader, but because of his obstruction of the underlying investigation. part of this challenge is with this administration. they need to be worried not just about what's happened in the past, but the actions they have taken and will take over the course of this investigation. host: before we get the calls, what do you make of what the president tweeted recently? "this is the single greatest witchhunt of a politician in american history." he told russian officials that comey is "a net job." -- nut job." guest: i don't think it fundamentally matters to his work. in washington there are many different opinions of jim comey. i don't think anyone in washington would act

anytime you have a special prosecutor, special investigation, for example ken starr looking into bill clinton, which resulted in impeachment hearing before the united states senate. is a long, drawnout thinks. >> whitewater was a three-year investigation. >> contra was six years. i heard somebody talking today about this is a slow rolling. you have to wonder, for trump it is in his best interest to get this moving it over with. otherwise, every legislative agenda he has will be bogged down here at the 2018 elections come up, no. >> interesting you brought up president trump. as of that we have not heard any official response from the white house on the appointment. yesterday, sean spicer was saying we don't feel like there is any need for special council when it comes to the. >> the message is coming out of the white house shall we say next. one minute you hear one thing, the next pr people out saying something else. it must be a very difficult environment to work in. i heard spicer talking about, at one point, the need to give instant information and come back -- come back out and gi

most famous ken starr probe of president clinton. president trump could veto a bill which would have to be overridden by two third of the house and senate. bill clinton signed a re-authorization of the original law in 1994 with several alleged scandals brewing. >>> we'll have plenty more on the dismissal of james comey. job openings are at a record high. is this good news or something going wrong in the american economy? pain used to shut me down during pick-up games. but with odor free blue-emu continuous pain relief spray, i can box out any muscle or joint pain immediately. blue-emu continuous pain relief spray, it works fast and you won't stink. (i've done every night isince i was a kid,hing empty my pocket change into this old jar. it's never much, just what's left after i break a dollar. and i never thought i could get quality life insurance with my spare change. neither did i. until i saw a commercial for the colonial penn program. imagine people our age getting life insurance at such an affordable rate. it's true. if you're 50

>> reporter: ultimately the attorney general but not a special counsel like ken starr and the law has since expired. this person has more autonomy than the typical u.s. attorney but he would still report to the justice department. >> that is doug luzader from washington. >>> it is 6:05 am. >>> let's check in with sal who is covering the traffic for us as usual. >> what about steve? >> i forgot about steve. normally we did the traffic and then the weather. >> we went commercial and we flip-flop. >> it happens, you have another 30 opportunities.>> i will try again, thank you. >>> we do have a nice day, and parts of the san mateo costar dealing with fog and other than that it is mostly clear and warming up pretty quickly. we have another cool morning, and some people said the furnace is kicked on again today. we will continue getting warmer , inland upper 70s and 80s already but the coast and bay will hang on for the 60s and 70s for probably another day. a little fog at the san mateo coast. if you are going up highway 1 or i we 92 watch out for some fog. not much of a breeze, sunny and w

on the other hand you may have a lot of democrats who will cite the ken starr example. full accounting of what you found, we want you to report that to congress, because you have a lot of democrats who are using the "i" word already, and they're going to want some insirgt into that investigation, whether it comes up or not. some will say that's what kevin starr did, he wrote a report to congress, that they used for impeaching bill clinton. >> as a democrat, would you accept if mueller says there's no illegality there, my work is done. would you accept that? >> i think everybody has to respect it, i think he's put in a position by people on both side of the aisle and i think he'll do a good job. but the investigation that's expansive, you also have the senate intel work, there was a view two weeks ago when mueller was named, that they would disappear into the dark of night, i think burr and warner proved that's not the case and there's a lot that can some out of that. >> do you think they'll move the goal post and say there may be no illegality there, but this is inappro

most famously the whitewater investigation of ken starr into the monica lewinsky scandal. >> we have the response directly as it was dictated from the president to the senior staffers in the white house. i quote, michael smerconish, as i have stated many times, a thorough investigation will confirm what we already know. there was no collusion between my campaign and any foreign entity. he says i look forward to this matter concluding quickly. in the meantime, i will never stop fighting for the people and matters most importantly to the future of our country. is that something he should say? >> with regard to president trump, i thought it was a sober analysis from him. i'm more surprised, brooke, by the lack of tweeting which is in his best interest to treat this in a different manner than he treated any of this thus far. can i float the idea that perhaps this was rosenstein's reven revenge? the lack of head's up to the white house was proper. i cannot help but wonder if this is rod rosenstein getting back at the white house for having thrown him out there and that two and a half page

ken starr did his work, submitted it to congress and you saw the judiciary committee ultimately pass articles of impeachment if you agree or not. >> i keep asking rhetorically which coal minors went back to work, which americans got better health care, which seniors got better tax plan? that is to say there's no work product and tonight there's this. washington post house majority leader kevin mccarthy made a politically explosive assertion in a private conversation that trump could be the ben fishiary of payments and this would have been our lead story tonight. "there's two people i think putin pays, congressman hor balker and trump." al according to the exchange stened tand verified by the washingtoning post and a congressman who is a california republican. house speaker ryan stopping the conversation from further exploring mccarthy's assertion. he quickly added swear to god. your party. what do we do about this? >> i've had every job in the house of representatives. every staff job up to being a member of congress. i've never been more disenchanted than when i actually served in c

clinton hired an individual lawyer to deal with all things related to ken starr so the white house couldonduct its business. if i were the white house i would focus on defending the nation and trying to get his legislative agenda through. >> credit to howard feynman for his appearance there. >> bob bennett was clinton's attorney through the paula jones and monica lewinsky scandals he is a former federaprosecut himself. so with us matthew miller former cefs spesman for the department of justice and msnbc security analyst. gentlemen i have heard it say over the past 48 hours especially president needs to lawyer up because the white house counsel only represents the institution of the white house. he needs a lawyer, people say, to protect him from himself. he needs to learn there are no toss off side comments anymore, that everything counts, people are paying attention, and writing it down. so having said that, if he were to hire you, what would your advice be starting day one to this president? >> well, i -- i would tell the president to focus on the affairs of the country and let -- let h

>> well, this is not the same independent counsel statute you may remember ken starr's white water investigation the authority of the department of justice and ultimately, will answer to the deputy attorney general. however, the statute that roh vids for the appointment of special counsel is specifically to be used when there's a conflict with the doj, so the practice is this outside special counsel will be given a a tremendous amount of independence and latitude. he'll have his own budget and staff. he will be able to impanel a grand jury and take the investigation where it leads him. the important thing is the scope of his investigation, which covers the potential russian interference with the election and then any other matters that lead out of it. that's probably the most important point. because if we think back to the last time we h a high profile investigation under the statute, that would have been patrick fitzgerald and the scooter libby and valerie plame investigation, which led to the conviction of libby, who was vice president cheney's chief of staff for perjury, for lying to the gra

ken starr morphed into affair with white house intern and impeachment by the end of it all, both sides of the aisle were upset they had a special prosecutor. in theory, the notion sounds good. in practice, it rarely works. liz: so the political turmoil that's going on gives democrats ample opportunity to block the president's agenda. that's what's going on now. the anonymous leaks, you and i talked aut it, right >> yeah, washington already leaks like a sieve, but now it's even worse and hard to believe. but, look, the appointment of special prosecutor will not interfere with the ongoing investigations in congress. evidence will come out there. it will continue to damage the president if democrats have their way and they likely will. liz: so here's the thing, we talked about it, the context of the one-on-one conversation with comey and trump in february, that basically the president said just lay off on flynn, when that january the fbi said nothing illicit between mike flynn and talking to the russian ambassador and february, the tenor and the tone of the conversation, the context of th

that's basically where the clinton administration was as the whole white water lewinsky matter run by ken starr, so there's some precedent for it. in terms of mr. comey's testimony, my understanding is they hadn't completely nailed down the day. it was still subject to discussion. but they wanted to be in open session. they want him to testify publicly. he, we're told, wants to testify publicly. and as you discussed with ken a moment ago, he's had he a conversation with fbi director mueller, the special counsel. and they've agreed this can be done. it would have been shocking if bob mueller said you can't testify publicly. they know each other. >> let me ask you, the reason, if anyone thought bob mueller would have said no, you can't testify publicly, it would have had to do with not compromising the special counsel's investigation. >> a lot of this has come out publicly. it has been all talked around. i don't think there's any question that -- let's face it. the discussion they would want to have is what happened between james comey and donald trump. so james comey talking about it isn't going

targets up being caught on perjury or obstruction of justice, and when you look at valerie plame or ken starr that's where you end up getting charges, and for this administration and their relationship with the truth, that's going to be a real challenge for them over the coming months as they begin to deal with special counsel robert mueller. >> great, michael, paul callan, gentlemen, thank you all so very much as this piece of news has dropped on this friday afternoon. i'm brooke baldwin. thank you for being with me here today. keep it right here on cnn. special coverage with jake tapper continues right now. >>> good afternoon and welcome to "the lead." i'm jake tapper. president trump is on his way to saudi arabia, the first stop on his very international trip since taking office, and shortly after air force one left the tarmac this afternoon new explosive headlines about the russia investigation continued to break as they have for the last week or so. the "new york times" now reporting that according to a white house document president trump in the oval office told russian officials ten da

that was ken starr. when the attorney general, if he's taken himself out as sessions has here, when the deputy attorney general believes that there's a conflict for justice officials to handle an investigation, and it would be in the public interest to avoid questions of impropriety, of a conflict, then a special counsel can be appointed. the special counsel comes in. has all the powers of a u.s. attorney, in essence. while as he creature of the justice departmentis not subject to the day to day supervision of the justice department. it has been used before. you may remember that james comey himself recommended a special counsel be brought in to investigate the whole scooter libby business. that was pat fitzgerald, the u.s. attorney in chicago. it would be the deputy's call in this case. >> finally the future of position of director of the fbi, right now there's an director. but i understand it is up to justice to appoint an interim director and then it will be the president names a permanent nominee. th

>> when you look at the history of special investigations like this, whether it's ken starr or the investigationthe valerie plame leak in the 2000s, often the controversies that end of growing out of these cases are not the core, they're the perjury or the obstruction of the investigations as they unfold. for an administration that has a challenged relationship with the truth, the first instinct is not going to be to tell bob mueller and the investigators the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. >> and that's where you get yourself in trouble. garrett, thank you, i appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >> joining me is former attorney general alberto gonzalez, dean of the university of law. thank you for joining us. where do you see this investigation going? as many experts have pointed out, for bill clinton the investigation started with whitewater, ended up with monica lewinsky. >> it really hard to predict, isn't it? obviously bob mueller has been given wide latitude to do this investigation and sometimes this is very hard to predict where investigations are going to go because today we

something that lapsed in 1999 that was used namely under the clinton administration for one, to point ken starr. we have alberto gonzalez with us right now. look, you were answering the question about the contact that president trump the president claims to have had with james comey where james comey allegedly told him three times there's no investigation into him, the impropriety on that, and also whether or not you think a special prosecutor would make things better at this point. >> first of all, including in that letter seemed totally inappropriate, quite frankly. if there was that communication it would have been inappropriate for james comey to have offered that information and that would be a sufficient basis to remove him as fbi director, but it also would be inappropriately, quite frankly, for the president to be asking and he should know better than to ask about an ongoing investigation. what i worry about is the whole issue of this investigation and the swirl around the fbi director and his public comments and testimony and now his removal has created this cloud that i do worry about

ken starr took what starteds awhitegate, travelgate, monica lewinsky.aching powers to get information, but he cannot take this investigation into total -- >> he's also a pro, a former fbi director. to that point we expect bob muler to stay in a clearly defined lane about russia election medaling. the comey firing fits into that and about people lawyering up the vice president was the head of the transition, he'll be involved, jared kushner, undisclosed meeting, he'll be involved, kellyanne conway, sean spicer, if they have anything to do with this, they'll get questions and probably need lawyers. these are the things to your point once they start it's hard to see where the exit ramp is. >> there was a politicals rebite for the republicans on the hill when the special counsel was announced. now they don't have to answer every day why won't you back a special counsel. there was a short term gain for them but long-term i think they know this has a lot of potential. >> if it hurts the president it hurts the republican brand. when we come back we're waiting

and that was what ken starr of the whitewater prosecutor was.hat law for appointing independent counsel by a special three-person council lapsed in 1999. special counsel have to abide by all the justice department rules and regulations, and in this case, the deputy attorney general still retains some supervision over the special counsel. so they're not truly independent. the deputy attorney general could overrule the special counsel. but there is a check on that when the whole process is over, the deputy attorney general has to report to congress about any changes that were made or any changes in the supervision of how the special counsel did the job. so it has to be somebody from outside the government. not just outside the justice department. it has to be a lawyer. and they have to commit to giving their full time, if that's what's needed. >> so if your reporting on a officials, both in the justice department or close to it, is this seen as a understandable place for emphasis or something that democrats have seized on but is perhaps getting ex