>> after ken starr.as a sense that if you give someone too much independence, there's no accountability. and there has to be a way for someone to be accountable to someone after ken starr. so they came up with this compromised solution, which is that the president can actually fire mueller and ken starr could not be fired at that point so i think they were looking for a middle ground here. the question is, that nobody can answer, nothing is perfect here. would it be a great solution for the president of the united states to ask rod rosenstein, who would then resign, so ask somebody else, to fire the independent counsel? no. but can he do it? absolutely. >> all of these structures, independent counsel, are designed, at least in a general way, to try to take politics out and make people independent. the story of washington, though, is that politics is never out. and even if people are independent and even if they have as impeccable credentials as robert mueller does, they are going to be attacked political

. >> but then ken starr, yes, that ken starr, former independent counsel investigated the clinton administrations, he disagrees with him. >> even if the president said what the director said he said, does that in fact constitute either obstruction of justify or another crime. i don't think it's close at this stage. we shall see. there is a requirement of corrupt intent. i don't think at this stage we're anywhere near a crime nonetheless we have to investigate it. >> robert ray is a former federal prosecutor. he succeeded ken starr as independent council issuing the final reports on the clinton whitewater investigation. nice to see you, sir. >> good to see you, greta. >> where do you stand on this? >> not just because he was my former boss but ken starr is right and the other is wrong. >> why is that? >> he doesn't have to have a reason to fire the director. his hopes and intimations about what he would like to have happened, if that's accurately recorded by jim comey, that doesn't constitute obstruction of justice because there would be no way based upon that evidence to prove corrupt intent. al

. >> and he also -- david, it also strikes me he has now a ken starr problem. i say that with all of the sort of political valence that has, right, because ken starr famously starts on an arkansas land deal and ends up with an intern with whom the president of the united states had a sexual relationship. and the two had nothing to do with each other but for the fact that ken starr was digging around. the president, it would seem to me, given the vastness of the holdings he has, now really does have a ken starr problem. >> and he's got as his pursuer in mueller, someone who, because he ran the fbi longer than anybody except for j. edgar hoover, has deep knowledge of how you can see the entanglements between financial matters and the russian efforts to influence and disrupt democracy in the west and in the u.s. and put those together in a way that will make sense. clearly there's something deep and dark that we do not fully understand. maybe something we don't understand at all that donald feels must be kept under wraps. >> i will respectfully dissent from that j

it just depends on what evidence is. >> martha: ken starr, thank you very much, good to see you, sir. >> ken: good to see you, thank you. >> martha: my next guest says the whole investigation is beginning to look absurd. charles krauthammer coming up with his can't miss analysis of what was happening in washingto washington. an unverified rumor that broke coverage across the media last night. the suggestion that president trump was considering firing special counselor robert mueller. the white house response to that now defunct claim and how that all happened. and an american college student has been released from north korea, but it will not be the homecoming has family had hoped for. >> we love you, you are an amazing guy, hang in there, tiger board, you are coming hom home. ♪ it's me and my best friend only new tena intimates has pro-skin technology designed to quickly wick away moisture to help maintain your skin's natural balance. for a free sample, call 1-877-get-tena. a trip back to the dthe doctor's office, mean just for a shot. but why go back there, when you can stay home...

ken starr subpoenaed bill clinton to testify in august, 1998 when independent counsel. white house initially resisted the subpoena, questioned whether it was possible to subpoena a sitting president. ultimately, they agreed to testify. as far as i know, the issue was never adjudicated whether you can force the president to testify. certainly going to be harder now politically for him not to testify, and ultimately whatever the president says now, what counts is what he says under oath. if you go back to the 1998 precedent, whatever people thought of that ken starr investigation, he accused president clinton of three counts of perjury, he didn't indict, he passed to house of representatives who ultimately used that as basis for the republican house voting to impeach him in 1998. you could easily imagine if mueller finds wrongdoing that that is the more likely path than testing the question of whether a sitting president can be indicted in a criminal manner, rather if he finds evidence of wrongdoing basically putting it on the lap of the house and saying are you going to

the clinton white house, they had a lot of people going out basically impugning ken starr for a long time. >> daily. hourly. >> is that the strategy you think this white house may take toward robert mueller? >> it's quite possible. i mean, i think mueller is going to be a target. and he is in the midst of a political struggle. now, mueller is likely to conduct his business very quietly. we're not likely to know a lot of what he's doing until and unless he indicts somebody. so if he's completely silent, i think it's less likely that they will be attacking him. but if he does charge somebody and if it does implicate the president he will be a big political target just the way starr was for the clinton folks. >> ken, this notion of the attorneys he's hired overwhelmingly have given money to democrats, that he met with the president maybe -- chris ruddy raised the idea that his law firm also had represented members of the trump family and therefore he might have been privy to some information, does that -- are any of those red flags for you? >> well, the only one that is a concern is the

when we had ken starr going against president clinton, there was an attempt to demonize ken starr. maybe that was fair maybe that was unfair. but i think the trump supporters realize that they don't want him to look like a fair arbiter in this situation. but if he is the person that newt gingrich said he was, he would have probably disclosed this meeting he had with the president and let them know and decide before he had that meeting. >> to jason's point, it's an incomprehensible idea. >> and what trump is thinking is this may be worse as this investigation goes on. but one major difference between firing comey and firing mueller is there is an evidence of a potential crime since mueller's dismissal. when comey testified, he added some new facts to the record the other day, right? and he said that it is now mueller's job to decide whether obstruction of justice teak place, so if the president is going to fire mueller, he's firing the person who's looking into whether he committed obstruction of justice. >> what makes anyone think that the republican party base would be upset about

. >> ken starr -- >> he did not hire a single republican in the first wave. >> i had ken starr the formerndependent counsel on the show yesterday. he said this is a fantastic team of complete professionals. >> well, ken starr and i live in two different universes then. when the first four people you hire all donated to the democrats and hillary, in one case, they were basically reprimanded by the supreme court for hiding evidence in a case which cost 85,000 people their jobs, i am very dubious about the team that mueller is -- >> you bring up this issue of political contributions back when ken starr was independent counsel he himself had given a lot of political contributions to republicans yet you and others supported that effort. >> that's right and i think we're in a different world and i think if you look at the intensity of where we are right now, whether it is somebody holding up the bleeding head of the president or a new york play showing the assassination of the president, we are in a period where if people think this is going to be a neutral, professional investigation, i think

as i said, there is precedent in the ken starr investigation where he accused the president of perjurymore evidence than a differing recollection from monica lewinski that he said is more credible. is it guaranteed that if the president said under oath, no, i never said these things. jim comey said, yes, i did, here is my contemporary evidence -- >> not just contemporary notes, but officials at the fbi that he shared this information. >> that was present in this case as well. but i'm interested. would the president, fe says no, it didn't happen and comey says yes, it did, here is my evidence it did, co-face legal jeopardy from that? >> this shows why you need the tapes if are there are tapes. mueller won't go into the investigation without having them if they exist. then have you something to compare it to that no one can wiggle out of. the notes are very good evidence since they happened at the time, but you can't foois fight against the recording. >> there is a court of public opinion. if you compare the credibility of comey to trump, jim comey wins when you look at his past record c

ken starr famously investigated the clinton administration and he is defending trump. >> it's too soonwe don't know a whole lot. the answer is no. it's going to be investigated. so, we will soon know. obstruction of justice is really a very hard crime to make out. it's not just you want the investigation to go away, you suggested the investigation goes away, you have to take a really affirmative gaction. >> kimberly: dana, ken starr on that clip from this morning defending trump saying essentially there isn't any evidence thus far for obstruction of justice. >> dana: he would know, he was one of the most famous special counsel in our lifetime. karl rove's column, he talks about having been in the site of special prosecutor. he knew on the first day that the underlying issue... okay, they are telling us the game has ended in washington, d.c. i believe the democrats prevailed in this game. a wonderful bipartisan event. >> greg: fake news! >> dana: it does not have any bearing on the future of congress. a night they will all remember. really great night. it was fun to be able to carry it

both sides agree that that ken starr investigation ran amok and that statute elapsed in the late 90s. now you have a situation where the president can basically fire, albeit through the acting attorney general, in this case rod rosenstein, bob mueller. you have surrogates for donald trump going around floating that possibility. if that happens and mueller is gotten rid of by donald trump, we're left without any independent conducting of that investigation, we need to at least have the back-up option of an independent counsel. >> jason, what about the idea of subpoenas? if people are willing to come voluntarily, is that fair? >> that's what attorney general sessions did today, he came voluntarily in front of the committee. you've seen a number of people step forward and say we would like to come and testify to knock down the silliness of this entire -- >> right but they're testifying but not quite -- they're saying -- >> the national review in a very well written piece tonight writes, preserving privilege is not obstructing justice. i think it's clearly what attorney general sessions w

ken starr, the pt investigator who investigated bill clinton was asked about this investigation being led by mueller with these questions in the backdrop and his job security be in question too. here's what ken starr had to say. >> it would be a very serious action but it would again depend on the facts, what is it that bob mueller did that would justify that sort of thing. firing special prosecutors tends not to work as we all learned from watergate. >> could the president fire bob mueller? >> that would be such a dramatic step. but i've learned to stop predicting what donald trump will and will not do. but what's so interesting here and what is to potentially so effective, this is what donald trump thrives on. he thrives on having an adversary and he thrives on being in combat. in this case he can identify somebody who is his enemy, he can rile up his base and lawmakers on capitol hill. that's what you've seen with jim comey and it looks like mueller is going to get the same treatment. >> he's assembled what one of our political reporter said are topnotch people. a sign of how serio

office, going after ken starr personally.one of that is new. what is new is the president is making it that much harder for his defenders and marco rubio comes on there with a very good point which is, let's just let this investigation play out. the president himself is preventing it. >> this president can't compartmentalize. >> well, i don't think he understands what being president is all about. presidenting is difficult. what you really need to do is focus -- >> is that a word, presidenting? >> it felt good. look, what this is about is actually governance. he doesn't want to govern, he wants to campaign. if what you want to do is campaign, then you have to fight all the time. the other stuff is boring. >> interesting. we're going to pause it here. when we come back, why tuesday's vote in george jia will be the t important special election ever. or maybe not. we'll be right back. >>> welcome back. data download time. the hotly anticipated special election in the georgia sixth congressional district is finally here. this tue

he's going to do something like ken starr, perhaps more on the up and up than that. but he's going after everything that looks fishy here. >> this is why no one wants to be the subject of a special counsel. there's always mission creep. you remember ken starr started out looking at a failed land transaction called whitewater. he ended up focusing on a stained blue dress and whether the president of the united states lied about his relationship with an intern. the most interesting aspect of this development is rod rosenstein. he'd almost certainly have to cuse himself, which would mean then the person in charge, the person with the ability to fire the special counsel, is the associate attorney general, somebody who is much more ideological than rosenstein. she teaches at a law school named after justice scalia, and no prosecutorial experience. so that would be a really interesting development. >> it looks to me like if i were involved in this case, i'd be scared. it seems to me this guy is mr. aggressive. this is his capping of his career moment clearly. we all know t

with all due respect to ken starr, i know ken starr and i like ken starr, but bob mueller is no ken starr or vice versa, ken starr is no bob mueller. i think anybody that is telling the president to attack bob mueller is making a supreme miscalculation. but that seems to be the way they're going, isn't it? >> yeah. there was an extraordinary passage in a piece in "the new york times" from two days ago that talked about the possibility that trump was weighing to -- was tempted to try to fire mueller where it said he was being purposely ambiguous right now in leaving the threat hanging out there because he thought the threat would put pressure on mueller to give him what he wanted which is an unequivocal -- >> john, isn't that a fundamental misreading? >> yes. >> donald trump should go to the end of "gone with the wind" and see what rhett says to scarlett at the end. that's how bob mueller feels about us and all of us. he doesn't give a damn what donald trump or anybody else thinks about him. >> right. this is a place where the legal merges with the cultural. one of the things people said b

we saw that with the ken starr investigation versus the clintons.erald was going after the valerie plame leak in the bush white house and ended up indicting the chief of staff to vice president cheney for lying to investigators. you know, these sort of criminal cases cross over into the political sphere and shift to football instead of baseball, essentially. but, you know, it took a long time for those cases to do that. the starr case was several years in when we suddenly -- not suddenly, when it evolved to point of this amount of vitreal. bob mueller has been on the job for a couple weeks. three weeks now, i guess. and already we're at the point where the president is saying that he and his staff are, you know, bad people, conflicted people, and the surrounding media industrial complex are already trying to, you know, gather dossiers of dirt, what they consider to be dirt, that is the past campaign contributions to democrats and so forth about specific staff hires in an effort to soften up that investigation to portray it as illegitimate and biased

. >> he must have thought like the ken starr days, the investigations go on and on. once it is someone else, that was an independent counsel, not special counsel, jeff. there is the one that was done dung the busch iv 3 administration. they go on forever. >> sure,nd that was no doubt he was concerned, at least thought that as a possibility for this administration. and they don't want that to keep pulling them away from the other things that he campaigned on and that he promised his supporters. >> of course, on a more sin ter side, he might have thought he could control attorney general sessions and he probably doesn't know bob mueller. >> the truth is governing is different from running a business and that has been a big learning curve. >> any word, aman, at the white house whether anyone is leaving? >> no, not yet, although they are having some difficulty bringing in new people. you see that the white house said they were going to do this war room and that does not seem to be happening. you have to imagine that people around town are worried about coming in and taki

, where they had no facts, they had no law, so what were they left with but to demonize ken starr. worked pretty well for them, and so maybe the same thing is going to be tried here. they're trying to demonize comey. they're calling him a leaker, when actually, he is not a leaker. they are saying that mueller is political, when actually, mueller made no contributions himself. but that's the effort. can they somehow create in the mind of the public doubt as to the integrity, and therefore, honesty, of bob mueller and his team, so that if there's a determination by mueller that the president and/or his subordinates did something wrong, people have a reason to doubt its sort of authenticity and see it more as a political decision. >> yeah, the dick morris strategy, as berman was pointing out this morning. a little lesson in history there. guys, stick around. symone, we'll get to you next. thank you for waiting patiently. and we will address the contributions republicans are pointing to about the top hire of bob mueller to a number of democrats. obviously a lot to follow in washington.

clinton probe, by ken starr started with whitewater, then democrats complaining it turned into fishing expedition with monica lou inkey, to claire -- lewinsky to clair clarify my point before. >> there has been zero, zero evidence that donald trump had anything to do with the russians, and the russians had nothing do do with donald trump, even comey affirmed at. so you wonder, why are these folks fixated on some connection that does not exist between donald trump and the russians. here and i news flash for democrats, if you sat around the dinner table tonight, with average american family, you would not hear anyone talk about russians or hacked elections or james comey. they are talking about the fact they are one root canal away from not able to make a rent payment this month, that is all it takes, one root canal, and their family, they don't care about the washington swamp nonsense. they want him to succeed, they voted for him. they are sick to death of this insider nonsense in washington. liz: a preview of tomorrow's jeff sessions testimony, what is likely to come up is comey bombsh

one thing which will concern americans and is concerning democrats is the cost of special counsel, ken starr is cheaper than the georgia election at this point, i want to ask, and this is not a mainstream media spend question, but there have not been many legislative accomplishments by the president so far, he has not managed to get done as fast as he would have liked some of the things he set out during the course of the campaign, why do you think that is, is it the president, the media, the republican party or perhaps these russia investigations? i think perhaps these russia investigations? ithinka perhaps these russia investigations? i think a leader has to take responsibility for himself and the dead health care bill, i don't know why, they had plenty of time and i think they have now taken a step back and are making sure they have the votes. i don't think he would be making an announcement that they are looking and hoping the vote before thejuly looking and hoping the vote before the july recess looking and hoping the vote before thejuly recess if looking and hoping the vote before the

so ken starr was speaking out about this on thursday.on years knows all too well about all of this. and he says as far as he knows now, everything he has seen, there has been no obstruction of justice. here is what he says. >> obstruction of justice is really a very hard crime to make out. it's not just you want the investigation to go away, you suggest that the investigation goes away. have you got to take really affirmative action. pete: to be clear we are not certain that's ken starr. >> we are going to correct that if that is false. words from somebody who know as lot of what he speaks. >> i want to know what happened to ken starr's hair. ken starr and i actually were in court together in the clinton impeachment because i represented the former attorney generals in that fight. i agree with him. i have said for a while now that people are getting ahead of their skies on obstruction. this is not easy to prove. i have never seen a case, ever, prosecuted on this type of evidence. it doesn't mean that there shouldn't be an investigation.

that is straight out of the clinton playbook, the clinton administration spent years demonizing ken starr it pretty effective. i'm just saying that legally, i would tell the president to simply let the investigation go forward and let his allies do whatever criticism they want to do. >> jon: what about the fact that robert mueller is staffing with a lot of lawyers who have made significant contributions to democratic politicians? >> again, i think allies of the president can berate that point kind of preemptively, it is a little weak going from president trump who himself made numerous donations to democrats in the not so recent past. i think he is an example of donating democrat, doesn't necessarily mean they are democrat now. it's fine for allies the president to raise that point. i think it's something the president should not focus on. he should be focused like a laser on saying he didn't do anything wrong and the investigation will conclude that when it's done. >> jon: he has said that in the past, that raises the question as to why the president seemed so concerned with the directio

i don't know that that will be as successful as the clintonites were able to do with ken starr who had a history in republican party politics before he was the independent counsel. this may be a little trickier for mueller because he has such bipartisan support in this town, but make no bones about it, donald trump is trying to frame him as a political opponent. >> a bunch of trump supporters are really going further in slamming mueller. >> yeah, they are. and, again, they are going to say he is political and that this is political. i was talking to somebody today who is close to the president who says that the president believes that this is political, that he's appointed a bunch of clinton people and that there's nothing there against him. and, you know, today sean spicer said, look, the president has no intention of firing mr. mueller, but i wouldn't be surprised if it's still going through the president's head. >> he didn't rule that out in the interview with fox news. >> he didn't rule it out, and we don't know what he's going to do in the weeks to come. >> you know mueller, phil.

ken starr took a seven or eight years to get to where we got in less than a year and half.ecause iportant would like to know as a voter before i vote in 2018 what should i expect? what do i need to know? the rumors that mueller could be fired, that would be the biggest disaster for the president. it would be like the saturday night massacre which wrought out a huge public outcry which forced president nixon to reverse himself and higher a second special prosecutor and turn over the tapes, which were his complete undoing. you about theask leaks in this investigation and i wonder if i can get a sense from you how important it is for robert mueller to work not in secrecy, but with privacy. are the leaks we have seen detrimental to his investigation? it depends on where they are coming from. it almost impossible to control leaks. sureness that there were never leaks from the watergate special product -- special prosecutor and i've seen no leaks from robert mueller's office. there's no reason to believe these leaks came from his office . there are other sources that might have s

i was watching ken starr say that he thought sessions did an amazing job. he is such a sterling human being that his beautiful heart light shown throughout the entire testimony. >> i thought it was a rorschach test where both sides saw what they wanted to. kennedy: isn't that the case these days. you have see what you want to see. >> i thought jeff sessions did a fantastic job protecting the president. he can't get pinned down for something discovered in the future. and he made know drama the president can go to. when we are talking about him not technically invoking privilege. it's appropriate. that's smart. democrats can't hold him in contempt for not doing that. they require the senate to vote on every single question he avoided. >> chairman burr said you can take these questions to the president and get approval. way was curious about. i felt like sessions was all over the map with russia. kamala hire rils said we have to have a harmonious relationship with return. to mccain he said we need to do more and said he believes russia was meddling in our elec

former clinton investigator ken starr tells "gma" the situation for now is not anywhere near a crime. was held to mark the anniversary of the pulse club shooting. vigils will be held tonight at 18th street and castro at 6:30. >>> uber's directors are weighing a three-month leave of absence for the ceo. >>> warming up a bit today but the winds this afternoon will be breezy and blowing out of the northwest,and you can see up the coast 30 miles per hour. inside the bay, 15 to 20 miles per hour, and it's 70 inland. >>> and then not seeing too much of a backup, and sounds like a motorcycle collided with a sedan north bay 101 near embarcadero, and they have called for an ambulance but it still looks pretty good. >>> imagine being halfway into a ten-mile race and then this happens, a bear going across the roadway a few feet away from the racers, and it looked like a bear was trying to find a big enough gap to cross the road. >> that lady is stopping and taking a photo. i would be running the other way. >> i got -- >> oh, no, i was going to show my hat. >> you have to show it on social media.

for more we're joined by the independent counsel who investigated bill clinton, ken starr.nk you for joining us this morning. i want to start out by putting yourself in robert mueller's shoes. you've been there before. after last week's comey testimony and the president's response, would you be investigating possible obstruction of justice? >> oh, you have to look at everything. in light of what the director said in his testimony, you've got to analyze it. so, the short answer is you gather all the facts, you assess all the facts it looks as if it is going to be, george, a he said versus a he said situation but, yeah, you have to look at everything. that's the job of the special counsel. >> he said/he said. do you think james comey would lie under oath? >> i'm not going to say anyone is lying. people have different recollections of the very same conversation. the key, though, is what even if the president said what the director said he said, does that, in fact, constitute either obstruction of justice or another crime? and i don't think it's even close at this stage. we sha

ken starr of the independent counsel was considering indicting president clinton, but he decided noto want to play this that a senator said to wolf blitzer said earlier today, that he believes michael flynn is a cooperating witness with the fbi. take a listen. >> all the signals are suggesting that he's already cooperating with the fbi, and may have been for some time. this would be just another bit of leverage for the prosecutors to make sure that he was cooperating and giving truthful testimony in order to avoid lengthy imprisonment. that's the conclusion from all of the evidence and experience from dealing with this. >> if that is the case, that's big. >> it's very big, and you have to wonder about other people making similar deals. if you're the trump people, you have to worry about that, that these are people that have to save their own hides. >> we have to take a quick break. ahead, more job creation for lawyers in washington, d.c. and son-in-law jared kushner seeks additional legal counsel because his current lawyer works at the firm that employs robert mueller. more on that a

i doubt very much that newt gingrich would have questioned the impartiality of ken starr during the clash with that independent counsel being the crucial difference it was an independent counsel and all these republicans who had nothing to say about their parties and former party members all of a sudden have the knives out. they're afraid this may lead to a conclusion inconvenient for partisan purposes. it shows how the situational ethics are rampant in washington and this say dangerous trend we're seeing in real time about a conspiracy in effect against the special counsel. >> matt, where does this leave the trump administration? they don't like what bob mueller is investigating? they don't think there's anything to see here. president trump has always said that we know that he fired james comey, and while some people talk about obstruction of justice, it's not as though there's something under way in the republican-led congress to make that happen. so now what? >> well, i mean, what they should do is try to compartmentalize this scandal. so there is going to be this process going on wit

leaves office, but you can investigate a president for perjury, the articles of impeachment after ken starrnton. so the investigation can be done, you are not violating doj rules. >> sean: i don't know how they don't recuse themselves. we have to roll here, but thank you all for being with us. every night we are going to stay on it until we get to the truth, because the american people are not being served here. coming up, the u.s. shut down the syrian government jet near rocca, and today a russian armed fighter jet flew within 5 feet of an american aircraft. weighing in with the real russia threat. and then later tonight... >> do you really want to be swarming the state of a william shakespeare play to shut it down? it does not make any sense could it does not make sense in the minds of people like sean hannity. >> sean: you don't know about shakespeare, caviar, and your blanket and central park. you talk about the true meaning as the artistic expression of the assassinating president knightly, because you do not appreciate the arts. my reaction to the idiotic comment he made a comment, i

going back to the clinton era, ken starr was appointed over a year before bill clinton met monica lewinskyd in a different direction. >> exactly. >> that's what they phrase as a witch hunt that led them down the monica lewinsky trail. >> that's a good example. you start looking at one thing. as comey said, when you turn over the rock, it's not like the fbi investigators will ignore a crime they come across, whether it be money laundering or collusion or anything else. i think donald trump and anybody working in the white house certainly should be retaining attorneys at this time because this is going to be a long slog here. the bottom line, as joe and rick have said, the underlying issue, the russia attack on our election is something so serious that we have to get to the bottom of it. donald trump trying to interfere in getting to the bottom of that question -- he didn't even ask comey at all what's going on with russia, how do we prevent this? >> that's the other thing comey said in his testimony, they'll be back. we can expect that in our next general election. zerlina, rick, joe, thank

>> i remember the clinton legal team going after ken starr. they did someamage to ken tar's reputation. but bill clinton had lied under oath to the grand jury, and that came out. i guess i think bob mueller's investigation is going to reveal what happened. and people are being too -- i mean, that's fine to follow all the subplots and interesting flaws. it's like a shakespeare play. it has tragic, comedic relief. at the end of the day, it's about trump, the election, and was there collusion with the russians and how inappropriately trump misbehave with comey, did it cross the line to an actual attempt to stifle or corrupt an ongoing investigation or was he just nibbling around the edges? people are underestimating how much we will know. mueller is going to have access to e-mails and phone records and putting people under oath. >> and do you think there are taping out thees out there? >> i don't know. i can't believe there are. it's a little weird for trump to suggest there are. >> all right. i'm going to go back to the tapes, but dan, in your ne

. >> the template that he was supposed to use, the bill clinton ken starr investigation, people in thete house put their heads down and got things done by trying to ignore it and ignore things they couldn't control, meaning independent counsel or special counsel investigation. they're not doing that here. it has to be because of the president of the united states. you can tell by his tweets. >> and that ends up se setting our agenda. we end up following it and talking about it instead of talking about the other things. we had governor sununu on, both of whom suggested let's take a deep breath. there actually aren't any conclusions yet. there may not be for months. >> exactly. >> how do you see it inside the belt way that seems like a headline. >> of course. absolutely, it is. and, you know, i think at the end of the day -- and, you know, chris, you tried to get sekulow to go at this point and he wouldn't, i guess, understandably, given who his client is. at the end of the day, whether the president is under investigation or not or part of the investigation is almost moot until we get t

in the ken starr case.e, not like they have know each other because they're in the same circles that sort of thing which some people tried to make it out like but they had a mentor and mentee relationship, no? >> they absolutely did. not only is it a violation of the special counsel statute, it is also a violation of code of professional responsibility. you get disbarred for doing things like this. the president is right, call him on this at foxnews.com, go to the opinion section. i argue the president should not fire mueller but ought to finally make a public case that mueller has a disqualifying conflict of interest and demand that mueller resign and recuse himself. not only that rod rosenstein, if there is obstruction of investigation investigation by mueller, rosenstein is a witness in the firing of comey and he can't oversee the case an be a witness in the case simultaneously. melissa: let me ask but the senate judiciary committee looking for information into loretta lynch, how she may have involved he

you were writing about the ken starr report, headline, clinton's behavior patterns become issue. clinton evoked many of the characteristics that are a familiar part of his history. his sense of victimhood, his desire to please, his tendency toward self-delusion. his legitimate concerns about the invasive powers of his adversaries and his peculiar manipulation of semantics, to construct a story line at once compelling and illusory. these are not similar characters, but what must your thoughts be about an arkansas land deal that ended up with an intern scandal in the white house and where investigations can take the investigators? >> well, that took six years. it took special prosecutors, independent counsels, impeachment. and a trial in the senate. and you're right, it started with a -- you say follow the money. the money went nowhere in that. the clintons lost money, and yet he ended up facing a trial. but there is one essential characteristic, or tre are many characteristics that differentiate bill clinton from donald trump. and the key one is a word that turned into a cliche, w

when bill clinton was president, he had people like our friend paul begala who used to attack ken starrbut bill clinton didn't do it. here, donald trump is doing the job that has usually been outsourced to employees because he's the only one who trusts himself to say these things about, about the man who is investigating him. all it does is keep the subject in the news, and i don't think it's going to intimidate director mueller at all. >> i think the opposite actually. >> i think the president, though, appreciates what would happen, rebecca, if he were to fire mueller, the reaction, what that reaction would be, especially the aftermath of him firing comey. >> i mean, certainly republicans have taken great pains to publicly warn the president about how detrimental that would be to his administration and his agenda if he were to fire mueller. so, good news for them is that the message does seem to be getting through. but talking about this, maybe not a productive thing, although you could understand why the president, not knowing how this investigation is going to turnout, or where it's

he couldn't stand ken starr, uldn't stand what cgress was doing.tter didn't exist. he did events. he would sit there and sometimes stubbornly pretend that he was focused on some, you know, ribbon cutting ceremony. >> national matter. they're doing the exact opposite. this president is consumed. not only is he consumed, he's talking about it. he's leading the charge. you wonder why think can't do what you're saying, which would be smart? because the president won't allow it. if he were tweeting about a bridge falling down in pennsylvania they're going to rebuild, a road in ohio that needs to be rebuilt, people would say let's focus there. he's not doing that. >> the live tweets, how disastrous. >> he's trying to counter program. he's going to ohio. it will probably be weird. i don't know if it's going to be disastrous, but it's going to give cable news something to focus on that is not the comey hearing. that's the point. where are you aligned with. >> i know we're trying to figure out graphically how to figure out to have comey and trump tweeting a

watch this, former independent counsel ken starr led the investigations into president bill clinton,g cnn you cannot pin obstruction on president trump. watch. >> too soon to tell. from what i have seen and, of course, we don't know a whole lot, the answer is no, but it is going to be investigated and so we will soon know. obstruction of justice is a hard crime to make out. it's not just you want the investigation to go away. you suggest that the investigation goes away. you've got to take really affirmative action. liz: yeah, the word hope, the president used the word hope. you will dial back in james comey, the idea that maybe james comey felt threatened. now the news is mueller is investigating the president for obstruction. ed: i don't see obstruction, the president is entitled by the constitution to hire and fire anybody he wants to, and the fbi director is an administrator in his administration he. could have fired him on january 20th, whatever, he could say tomorrow i want the fbi to shift from what they're doing today to investigate drugs or what have you. that's the prerogat

to me, this is benny hill liked sped up version, a replay of the 1990s with bill clinton and ken starrere the trump forces, all they want to do is discredit the special counsel, attack his credibility, attacked him while at the same time -- >> special counselor is to mueller. i know. i mean, attacking the messenger in the form of comey. my guess is that mueller's day will come. meanwhile, we hear donald trump -- he would love to be deposed under oath. you know, that's what bill clinton impeached. it's mind-boggling you have to think that poor, you know, don mcgann must be mainlining black tar heroin at the thought his client is going to be deposed under oath! there is no lawyer out there that thinks it's a good idea. my guess it's just bluster. what we are seeing here is a strange arctic bank where donald trump says in tweets and impress conference today, simultaneously 100% vindicated and so much of what comey said our lives. well, those things are hard to square. you can't say he's lying about the inconvenient beats, but he's totally telling the truth about the parts that exonerate y

we have the former counsel ken starr. what does he think about the threads of the investigation?>> this gunman who targeted republican lawmakers approached two of them before opening fire. he asked them both the same question. congress member ron desantis is one of them. he will join us live next. you know what's awesome? gig-speed internet. you know what's not awesome? when only certain people can get it. let's fix that. let's give this guy gig- really? and these kids. and these guys. him. ah. oh hello- that lady. these houses! yes, yes and yes. and don't forget about them. uh huh. sure. still yes! you can get it too. welcome to the party. introducing gig-speed internet from xfinity. finally, gig for your neighborhood too. >>> so just moments before a virginia ballpark turned into a killing field, two congress member say they were approached by the gunman who asked whether republicans or democrats were on the field. leading to an obvious conclusion that that gunman was there looking for republican lawmakers. joining us now is one of those two congress members. ron desantis of fl

. >> reporter: but ken starr, former special counsel, whose investigation of president clinton ultimately led to his impeachment says it's a tough case to make. >> obstruction of justice is really a very hard crime to make out. it's not just, you want the investigation to go away, you suggest that the investigation goes away, you've got to take really affirmative action. >> do you solemnly swear to tell the truth? >> reporter: comey says trump did suggest it, saying that he hoped comey could let the flynn investigation go. >> i took it as a direction. i mean, this is the president of the united states. >> reporter: the president denies it. >> i didn't say that. >> so he lied about that? >> well, i didn't say that. i mean, i will tell you, i didn't say that. >> reporter: the president also reportedly bragged to russian officials, "i just fired the head of the fbi. i faced great pressure because of russia. that's taken off," according to "the new york times." as early as this week, investigators will interview the nation's top intel official, director of national intelligence, dan coats. he

i was there when ken starr deposed william jefferson clinton. that was a chilling day in the map room of the white house. the question is years later, will this happen? people want to hear the truth. right now it's he said-he said. but right now james comey has credibility according to the american public. this president has thrown this issue in the atmosphere by tweeting its. and now we have to find out really what's going on, so it's left up to the president for stand by what he says and the question is will he tell the truth. >> mike, here's the thing. the president wants to have it both ways. today he said, listen, jim comey tells the truth so much so that he vicinity indicated me. in the next breath he says comey's a liar. here he is. >> we were very, very happy and frankly, james comey confirmed a lot i said and some of the things he said just weren't true. >> so the president says comey vindicated him because he told the truth and then he says he's a liar. how can both be there true? >> james comey committed sins of omission and sins of c

liz: quickly, to your point, ken starr's whitewater investigation into bill clinton morphed into the monica lewinsky investigation. you're saying the robert mueller investigation into russia meddling could turn into how loretta lynch and the obama administration handled the hillary clinton probe and the clinton foundation. >> exactly rate. liz: thank you so much for your time. >> good to see you. >> the latest in the british election. conservatives still the largest party with 314 votes. they need to hit 326. they got to get to that number in order to win the majority. we're staying on this story for you throughout the night. the british pound dropping after that exit poll was released. and conservative party, theresa may's party would stay in the majority. the results are still coming in. ashley webster will be all over the story. also lou dobbs and neil cavuto throughout the night. >>> back to james comey attacking the "new york times" today saying it was flat-out wrong in a story in february saying this russia was in contact with the trump campaign throughout the election. we've g

let's move on and ken starr is the devil and we're starting to see the beginning of a strategy. i'm not saying it's great. i didn't like clinton devaluing -- >> but that's what they did. >> and it's like the russians taking over the democratic process. not to worry. nothing to see here. >> they are going to get their sea legs out of this. it wasn't great that clinton lied either. and what the russians did is -- >> that was about sex and this is about -- >> that was about lying under oath. >> oh, lying. i'm not equating the two. i'm just saying that they have a political strategy now that came out of today which is the deep state actually exists. it's the president versus the permanent government. >> i'm a lawyer, too. that terrifies me. we're at war with our constitutional -- >> let's go to chris -- brian stelter, our senior media correspondent. you talk a lot about these briefings. we're talking about this leak, although there's been discussion about whether it could be constituted as whistleblower status. what do you think? >> i think it's a side show. it's a talking point for