elizabeth: look who is back with us, former independent counsel ken starr.ove having you back on. good to see you. this supreme court fight, right? it is now hearing arguments about this public high school teacher, a former high school teachers right? he is from washington state. he is suing for the right to kneel and pray at mid field an, on the field after his high school football games. where do you come down on this? this is really, it's a free speech fight and runs right up against the separation of church and state. >> right. yeah. very important case, matching the free exercise of religion and free speech as you say. prayer is a form of speech, obviously it is the free exercise of religion. and that needs to be protected. i think the supreme court is very likely to protect coach kennedy's right to engage in private prayer as long as there is no coercion. that is the key. no coercion of anyone, certainly of the players involved. and while there are different factual iterations got a little complex and messy as cases sometimes do, the real court issue i

joining us now, ken starr, former whitewater independent counsel, former judge. great to see you tonight, ken. the white house claims that doj is independent. so for folks out there, why would a special counsel be necessary here? >> to ensure independence, we want the justice department to make independent judgments, but long ago as early as the administration of ulysses grant, the justice department is not independent. they're part of the executive branch. that's we have the special counsel regulations. they're the law of the land the last 30 years. so i've long felt that the hunter biden situation given the questionable nature of these business practices and the fact that they may very well touch on the president of the united states means that there should be special counsel appointed. >> laura: we also know that in these e-mails that are on the computer the president is referenced. he's called the big guy in one of them. another name in another -- this isn't like casual stuff. we have a major world power involved, china, which is now supporting russia in thei

here to break it down, former independent counsel ken starr. great to see you, ken.t with the letter where congress is essentially saying you know, we've got a grand jury investigation here. we want to know what's going on. this is a story, the hunter biden laptop, that everybody has dismissed over the course of the last year and now we're finding out indeed it is real. not only are there issues about hunter biden but the president may indeed be linked to some of these business dealings. congress is saying we want to know what is going on and the american public does too. your thoughts? >> it is very understandable, jackie, congress wants to know, eager to know, the american people should want to know but there is a problem. that is it is an ongoing investigation. that means there is a grand jury investigation and the justice department is constrained by law. they cannot disclose specific information that is before a grand jury. so that is a real problem in terms of quote, briefing members of congress about what's happening in a live, ongoing investigation but it doe

to go after donald trump on any issue pretty much they can, and jonathan turley, for example, an ken starrample, say this is exactly why we would need a special counsel. i agree with both their analysis. do you agree we need a special counsel to look into this? separate and apart from merrick garland, who has already indicated he has politicized the department of justice? >> well, the only problem the special counsel appointed by merrick garland, i won't have any faith in him. one of the problems with the special counsel, if we could find integrity, i would love to see it. the information goes into a dark hole. as high integrity as i think john durham is, look at how long it has taken him to get the information out. we were denied access to the information during the john durham probe, so there is a real problem with special counsel. fortunately, you have people like tony bobulinski, like mr. mcisaac, who offered up that laptop, you've got some investigative reporters, like yourself, john solomon, of "the new york post," that are exposing this, and now the media, as i refer to it, is a mod

that was the hook that got ken starr inside what was going on with whitewater. then that moved on. is your take on hillary clinton trying to get tossed out trump's federal racketeering lawsuit for trump-russia collusion. the hillary team is calling the trump lawsuit merrittless, what do you say? >> i told you before i think the trump lawsuit is a joke. it looks like it should been written with crayons. it is going nowhere and it will be dismissed but that is not the end of the story for hillary clinton because john durham is uncovering, talking about in his court filings very serious, very serious scandal involving the clinton campaign. elizabeth: do you think there could be a conspiracy charge there from john durham against the hillary team, conspiracy? >> well there already is a charge as you know against mr. sussman. elizabeth: right. >> whether or not he is looking at other people we don't really know yet. he has made fascinating filings, again it is the same story with the clinton campaign across the board. let's leak untrue and damaging information about the trump campaign. l

and jonathan turley, for f example, and ken starr, for example, say this is exactly why we would need a special counsel. i agree with both their analysis a. do you agree we need a special counsel to look into this separate and apart from merrick garland who has already indicated he's politicizedf the department of justice? well, the only problem the special counsel appointed by merrick garland is i wouldn'telel e have any faith in him. part of one of the problems with the special counsel if we could find one with integrity, i'd love to see it. but the problem is the information then goes into a dark hole. we haveon high integrity and is, think john durham is look how long it's taken him to get the information out. we were denied access toen the information during the john durham probe. so there's a real problem of special counsel s. fortunately you have people like tony bobulinski like mr. mcisaac who , you know,w, offerd up that laptop. you've got some investigative reporters like yourself, john solomon, the new york post. they are exposing this and now the media is, as i refer to it