ken vogel is following all of this for politico. thanks as always for being with us. >> it's a pleasure. >> so to paraphrase what you're reporting tonight, it's an act of hypocrisy or one of necessity. what's going on here? >> it's a little bit of both. this has been in the works for quite awhile. as norah o'donnell pointed out, the president during the 2008 midterm election spent a lot of time raling against the influence of outside groups that were lining up behind republicans in 2010. and one of the reasons why they aren't weren't lining up as quickly behind democrats is because of president obama and because of the stances that he took going way back to even before he was an illinois state senator but sort of most acutely and you know, having the most impact income 2008 when he and john mccain during the 2008 presidential campaign got together and actively discurrentlied large donors from giving to these outside groups to air ads on their behalf. when the citizens united decision and a subsequent lower federal court decision in

, jonathan capehart an opinion writer for the "washington post" and right in the thick of action ken vogel and shaved for the very purpose. starting with david. this a who's who, but is this about coalesces around some important themes, particularly in this election year or is it another opportunity for herman cain to sing "amazing grace." >> i hope both. i don't see any coalescing around a candidate. cpac happens every year but ever four years it takes amybñ more exalting meaning. the big vent will be mitt romney speaking tomorrow. we'll see if he can bring them c onto his side. i think the answer is no, but i expect him to come out tomorrow with a guitar and sing "can't buy me love." . i don't know what he does at this point, but that's the theme. >> ken, you're there on the scene. what is the climate that will greet mitt, newt and rick? >> i am sensing a bit of a move toward rick santorum. his people are out in force here. they are giving out all kinds of literature, pro-life bumper stickers. you would not have seen that last year and two years ago. you would have seen it but not as mu

ken vogel and joe ann reed. karen, if i can start with you. nonother than carl rove said he was offended. how is an ad promoting the comeback being seen as vile and negative as some in republican circles. wasn't it clint eastwood who was considered for a vice president's position by a republican? >> that's exactly right. in 1988, george bush, was considering him. here is the thing. this is really quite disgusting on the part of carl rove. you heard the republican talking points saying i wonder how much the obama campaign paided clint eastwood. when i watched that ad it gave me goose bumps. that's my country. that is america. that's the america that i know the values that my parents raised me with which is we fight. we fight on, and we get back up, and that's part of what makes america such a great country. carl rove is offended by that and the same time it's the republicans who are saying that president obama is anti-american and these guys are attacking the american auto workers, the communities, the people that brought that industry back. th

"outfront" now political reporter ken vogel and jamal simons, also, doug high. to have you with us. interesting news when you look at this, ken, about super pacs, right? i guess he's basically saying i don't like them, but since i can't change the rule, i might as well play. >> he's trying to have it both ways here. this is a president who going back to his earliest days in politics has made getting rid of the interests of the influence of big money in politics sort of a central part of his political identity. in 2008, he and senator mccain combined to discourage outside spending. in 2010, he complained about it bitterly when karl rove raised a lot of money for these outside groups. after they beat them in the midterm elections, democrats started to back away and now, you see them actively trying to raise this exact same kind of money. >> i guess there's an irony to it. it wasn't long ago that mitt romney was having that same conversation. oh, i hate those super pacs, i believe on "morning joe." so now they're in the same position. jamal, what do you make of how

joining us in arlington, virginia, ken vogel and julian epstein. the v.p. talk has already started. ideas. for mitt romney, senator rand paul. there's clearly a romance between romney and the father. >> their interest are aligned. i think ron paul and mitt romney both don't like rick santorum and they are both taking shots at him and rick santorum had the speculation after wednesday's debate by pointing out that ron paul went after him and is on the air with attack ads in michigan where ron paul is not even campaigning yet the ads are attacking rick santorum undercutting his chance to secure a race shifting win as for rand paul, he's an appealing candidate. he would help mitt romney with an area where he is weak, that being the tea party and those are activists that you need on board. they are the sort of ground troops and the energy and socially the small contribution who would really help mitt romney in the general election. >> okay. julian, for rick santorum, we waen wanted someone with whom could defend us from satan. we chose franklin graham. >> i think the two of them could ru

"outfront" now political reporter ken vogel and jamal simons, also, doug high. e you with us. interesting news when you look at this, ken, about super pacs, right? i guess he's basically saying i don't like them, but since i can't change the rule, i might as well play. >> he's trying to have it both ways here. this is a president who going back to his earliest days in politics has made getting rid of the interests of the influence of big money in politics sort of a central part of his political identity. in 2008, he and senator mccain combined to discourage outside spending in their race. in 2010, he complained about it bitterly when karl rove raised a lot of money for these outside groups. after their rode these outside groups to beat democrats badly, they backed away from their opposition and now you see them actively trying to raise the same, exact kind of money. >> i guess there's an irony to it. it wasn't long ago that mitt romney was having that same conversation. oh, i hate those super pacs, i believe on "morning joe." so now they're in the same position.

let's bring in john avlon and ken vogel who is the influence reporter for politico. there's one thing he said they think most reasonable people would agree with. maybe i'm wrong. if you're going to give money to a candidate and you like their cause, you should be able to give it to the candidate, not the roundabout groups. the reason they give it to the roundabout groups is because there are limits to giving to the candidate, and money finds a way to go look for influence. >> and he seemed to be sort of complaining about the system in part he's helped create. look. the image of the super pac sort of functioning as george bailey's building & loan where it's a bunch of middle class folks binding together to leverage their influence doesn't bear out with the reality of how the system is working routh now. we've got 200 individuals who have paid half the money given to super pacs today. we know the last cycle there was around $5 billion. fcc is estimating $11 billion. it's more money. it's going to fuel a lot of negative ads. >> ken, what's amazing to me is that when you

joining us in minneapolis anna marie cox, a correspondent from the guardian and ken vogel. >> anna inryh's says santorum's quotes about women in the military completely misunderstands the nature of modern warfare. i hate to say it, but doesn't gingrich have a point? >> i think rick santorum understands the nature of a lot of modern things, including gender releases and families. but younknow i think yes. newt gingrich is clever, let's say that. he does have a command of facts even if he doesn't choose to use them. santorum does seem to be off base on this. he doesn't seem to understand the way that modern warfare is fought or the roles different people play in it. this is another example of weirdly how social issues have come to the front in this race if that's what they're attacking each other about. that is basically good for rick santorum in his appear, by the way. >> every time a non-romney candidate takes the lead, his past comes back to bite him. do you think that pattern will hold for santorum, particularly his magnificently well paid career as a lobbyist? >> well, certainly you

political analyst and former dnc communications director karen finny, columnist for the hill and ken vogeligative reporter for politico. with us from nashville, judson phillips co-founder of the tea party nation. .karen, rick santorum is talking about satan, neonatal care and the fire down below. mitt romney is talking about finding his wife in kindergarten and his love of trees. i know i was off for two days but what on earth is going on? have they lost their minds? this this is what happens when you go away. my god, it's like we're in the 1950s when people were criticizing elvis presley for those wiggling hips. i mean, it's crazy. clearly tonight it should be a very interesting conversation where rick santorum will as you said in the introtry to talk about the economy although i think he's going to have a lot to answer for. he seems to think he's got those answers so it will be interesting to see what he actually says. >> it will be an interesting defense of beal za bub. ken, given how well santorum is now doing in the polls, does this not prove that a return to 1980s disco and the cultu

let's bring in john avlon and ken vogel who is the influence reporter for politico. there's one thing he said they think most reasonable people would agree with. maybe i'm wrong. if you're going to give money to a candidate and you like their cause, you should be able to give it to the candidate, not the roundabout groups. the reason they give it to the roundabout groups is because there are limits to giving to the candidate, and money finds a way to go look for influence. >> and he seemed to be sort of complaining about the system in part he's helped create. look. the image of the super pac sort of functioning as george bailey's building & loan where it's a bunch of middle class folks binding together to leverage their influence doesn't bear out with the reality of how the system is working routh now. we've got 200 individuals who have paid half the money given to super pacs today. we know the last cycle there was around $5 billion. fcc is estimating $11 billion. it's more money. it's going to fuel a lot of negative ads. >> ken, what's amazing to me is that when you