march 8th of this year ken vogel is still on this story. reports based on multiple sources that manafort was still dealing with this guy throughout the campaign. not just from the past, lasted through the election. and kostya from the gru had taken two trips to the united states to visit with paul manafort while he was working for the campaign. upon returning home from one of those trips to the united states, the guy from the gru reportedly started bragging around kiev that he had been the one that got that plank changed in the republican party platform. after a late summer trip to the united states he suggested he had played a role in vetting a proposed amendment to the republican party platform that had staked out a more adversarial stance toward russia. that's who did it. russian intelligence guy is bragging about this in 2016. that's who did it or at least who is bragging about it. two weeks later the associated press pounding another stone into this path. direction they took it? suddenly made it seem very serious. associated press repo

i want to thank ken vogel. heidi prez, who is now white house correspondent. >> right. >> we'll see you talking to sarah. robert mueller is pouring over facebook, they're going to facebook trying to find out who's paying for the adds, the money trail again, follow the money. and did the russian operatives get help from jared kushner, the micro analysis of the campaigning we're familiar with. who was telling the russians, how to find out the voters they needed to identify in states like michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania. who on our side was telling them? plus politics was front and center at last night's emmy awards. we'll see sean spicer joking around. i'm with him, get out there, make a full of yourself. another day, another nickname for trump. he's calling kim jong-un rocket man. wars started by name calling. it's like trump's on the campaign trail, i guess he thinks, against north korean dictators. let me finish with trump watch. this is "hardball" where the action is. as they age and grow. whether it be

joining us now, one of the reporters who shared the byline on that story, ken vogel of "the new york times" who just happened to be lunching next to the president's lawyers. and here at the table with me, nbc news chief white house correspondent hallie jackson, eli stokel and bill crystal, founder and editor of the weekly standard and john heilemann, national affairs analyst. ken, tell me first of all, just take me through this scoop, first of all, and how you proceeded. did you keep eating and shush whichever source you were wining and dining in a swanky steakhouse. >> i don't get the sense they wanted to be heard. i've seen a little speculation on that point on twitter and elsewhere. and, you know, typically with folks in trump's orbit, if there's a spectrum between like incredibly devious sort of manipulative puppet mastery and just clumsy and incompetence, it's almost always going to be closer to that clumsy incompetence. so i think that's what happened here, that they were just very indiscreet. i was sitting there, as you suggested, with a source having a source lunch and notice

. >> carol, ken vogel who is a frequent guest on this broadcast, goes out to lunch with a source. and imagine his good luck to look over and see not one, but two lawyers for the president. many of us, this is the picture he took with his cell phone. that's ty cobb on the right with the handle bar mustache. many of us engaged in some skeptical speculation that maybe these attorneys were mouthing off for ken vogel's consumption, having recognized him. it is a question, nicole wallace put to him during the 4:00 p.m. hour. watch this and comment afterwards. >> did you ever have the sense that they wanted to be heard? >> well, that last part first. i don't get the sense that they wanted to be heard. i've seen a little bit of speculation on that point on twitter and elsewhere. and, you know, typically with folks in trump's orbit, if there's a spectrum between, like, incredibly devious sort of manipulative puppet mastery and just clumsy incompetence, it's usually closer to the clumsy incompetence. i think that's what happened here, they were very indiscrete. >> so, that's part of his def

"the new york times" ken vogel, a frequent guest on this and many other cable news programs, tweetedhis picture of the two lawyers doing the worst possible job they could for their client at lunch talking about the investigation publicly. and you are speaking publicly whenever you are speaking in such a way that other people can hear you and real lawyers know that. john dowd who is being paid as donald trump's private outside lawyer has an obligation to maintain attorney/client privilege with donald trump. he violated that obligation by being overheard at lunch. ty cobb, the other lawyer at the table, now tied with john dowd for the title of worst lawyer in washington, talked loudly about his disagreements of turning over documents and complained of other lawyers. i've got some reservations about one of them. i think he's like an mcgahn spy. when ken vogel contacted the white house and the lawyers involved before printing their article about that discussion, john dowd told this lie to "the new york times" about the conversation that ken vogel had actually heard. he said, nothing we s

ken vogel described his fortuitous encounter at a major d.c.joe." >> it's perhaps doubly astounding they would have this conversation at this restaurant where a number of power players are known to lunch, but also reporters are known to lunch and times" reporters in particular. and yeah, it was -- i was surprised that they were -- that they were going into such detail about the russia investigation. >> why does that never happen to me? the inside scoop from susan page, "usa today" washington bureau chief and robert costa, national political reporter moderator of washington week on pbs and msnbc political analyst. i'm here for lunch so i don't have any of these encounters. susan, you can't make this up. >> it's unbelievable. i mean, not only is it where reporters go, it is next door to "the new york times" washington bureau. it is one block away from the "usa today" washington bureau. and, of course, if not a reporter overhearing what about other lawyers? you never know who is -- it's quite an extraordinary breach it seems to me. >> and robert c

i agree with ken, making promises on the campaign trail. >> ron clain and ken vogel, ken, your articles a party unlike anything we have ever seen in washington. mandatory reading. thank you very much, both of you, really appreciate it. >> thank you, lawrence. >> thank you. >>> coming up, the president defended his attacks on football players today. and, of course, the president managed to at least tweet about puerto rico. why should over two hundred years of citi history matter to you? well, because it tells us something powerful about progress: that whether times are good or bad, people and their ideas will continue to move the world forward. as long as they have someone to believe in them. citi financed the transatlantic cable that connected continents. and the panama canal, that made our world a smaller place. we backed the marshall plan that helped europe regain its strength. and pioneered the atm, for cash, anytime. for over two centuries we've supported dreams like these. and the people and companies behind them. so why should that matter to you? because, today, we are still help

also joining us is ken vogel, a reporter for "the new york times." ken, we saw these statements coming out of the dinner tonight where joe manchin very, very specific about debt. heidi heitkamp, as ken conrad pointed out a little unclear what she said it. nothing really from senator donnelly, just a general it was a very nice dinner. what do you make of this dinner tonight? >> there is no doubt that it's significant, lawrence. it doesn't take a whole lot of democratic support in the senate in particular to form a new coalition that could potentially pass legislation even as there may be republican holdouts, tax reform obviously is one, that republicans had been advocating for and that trump had been excited about for some time. but you see why a senator like heidi heitkamp or joe donnelly might be persuadable in a situation like this. trump, i think, that was the import, that was the significance really of the debt ceiling deal with pelosi and schumer was not necessarily the actual what was in the four corners of the deal, which now mitch mcconnell is

i agree with ken, making promises on the campaign trail. >> ron clain and ken vogel, ken, your article describes a party unlike anything we have ever seen in washington. mandatory reading. thank you very much, both of you, really appreciate it. >> thank you, lawrence. >> thank you. >>> coming up, the president defended his attacks on football players today. and, of course, the president managed to at least tweet about puerto rico. hey, you every talk to anybody about your money? yeah, i got some financial guidance a while ago. how'd that go? he kept spelling my name with an 'i' but it's bryan with a 'y.' yeah, since birth. that drives me crazy. yes. it's on all your email. yes. they should know this? yeah. the guy was my brother-in-law. that's ridiculous. well, i happen to know some people. do they listen? what? they're amazing listeners. nice. guidance from professionals who take their time to get to know you. even if you're trying your best.be a daily struggle, along with diet and exercise, once-daily toujeo® may help you control your blood sugar. get into a daily groove. ♪ let's gro

new york times" reporter ken vogel.ie cobb and john's personal lawyer john dowd as they were sitting there in a public space eating lunch and talking very, very loudly. ken vogel is joining me now from washington. you were sitting there and got the picture and the whole deal. can you just tell me, how did -- you were obviously sitting very closely. how did you realize who these people were and that this was going to be this huge scoop in the public place? >> yeah, brooke, i actually was having lunch with a source and the source noticeded that these two gentlemen came in and the source said isn't it that guy ty cob? >> with the mustache? >> he's a pretty distinctive dude. he's not going to go unnoticed in washington particularly a restaurant that is frequented not just lobbyists and lawyers, but reporters. i should point out the restaurant is 171 feet away from "the new york times" washington bureau and not the best place to have this conversation and nonetheless, we're sitting there with the source and we finished up ou

i'm joined by ken vogel and a white house reporter for bloomberg. thank you. we had your colleague peter baker on. let's put it together in terms of a time capsule of this week in the presidency. the young presidency of donald trump. i mean, tom price, nfl protest, health care, no repeal there trump loses with strange, bannon beats him, the official using jets and the puerto rican absurdity of claiming it's a good story. put it together. >> yeah, i mean, on at least a couple of those fronts, things are only going to get worse. the loss of luther strange in alabama. mitch mcconnell is going to be getting potentially another, at best, another republican senator who is not going to be willing to go along with him. making it that much harder to pass big-ticket legislative items like health care or tax reform. and then the situation in puerto rico obviously very sadly does not appear to be getting better and trump has put himself out there as have members of his cabinet in a way vouching for the recovery effort in a way that appears insensitive right now and if thi

what is peculiar is they would know what ken vogel looks like, who he works for and he's sitting, maybeot five feet away. we talk about the president and speeches every morning on "today in the bay." you can contact me directly on twitter to tell me what you think. >> thank you, scott. 6:50 right now. monday morning. ahh. that's right. >> when i saw you this morning, you were like, it's monday. what makes it easier is we have such beautiful weather. we cannot say the same for our friends on the east coast as we continue to track hurricane jose with wind speeds up 85 miles an hour. it's made the seas rough for the atlantic and extending toward new england. this is expected to continue on as a category 1. it is not expected to make land fall, but will be dangerously close to some areas in new england over several days as a tropical storm. watching hurricane maria now moving over some of the same islands that were completely dev stated by hurricane irma and it's now a category 2 hurricane, expected to strengthen over the next several days and move right over puerto rico, by wednesday, poss

. >> i should also mention that after this thing happened and ken vogel snapped this photo that they all of this, and he privately, rupted on in cobb according to people and they sharply reprimanded mr. cob for his indiscretion. there was potential paranoia inside the west wing. fears that co-workers are miked up to surreptitiously record conversations for the special counsel. what do you even make of those fears and even the possibility of that? >> well, i think that the paranoia is almost a natural consequence of a wide-ranging federal investigation of this, and people apparently don't know who is talking to mueller and maybe they've been privy to conversations that they now know are somewhat sketchy and they might be questioned,a well. so everyone, i think, wondering what they might be exposed to, and i think rightly so and it's becoming more like king henry viii's court rather than an administration. it seems like there's a lot intrigue ask cloak and dagger, but they're all at this point going to have to look out for themselves because they may also be in the target. >> here is a

. >> joining us, ken vogel of "the new york times" issie lapowsky from wired., you've been on this case as is your jurisdiction at wired. this is their turf. this is an incredibly difficult arena. trying to regulate in some sense advertising online is a very different proposition than on television. >> it is. it's a much easier thing actually for people who might like to slip disinformation or false information online. what you find is digital ads are actually regulated more like campaign buttons or bumper stickers, which when you think about it is absolutely absurd because the reach of a campaign button or bumper sticker has nothing on the reach of a facebook post or a facebook ad. so the other big issue is that the campaigns are the ones that are really responsible if they violate campaign law. the onus does not fall on these platforms. i think that's what a lot of regulators are looking at now. how do we ensure that digital platforms like facebook are just as responsible as television networks and radio networks? >> ken, can it be simply a matter of disclosu

>> like ken vogel's observation of the two trump lawyers at blt steak, it sort of defies belief.er had a really good piece on this on your website. you know, why is the emmys, why is hollywood helping sean spicer rebrand himself? i have that same question. >> thank you. frank bruni, always a pleasure. >> thank you, don. >> i'll see you soon. >>> up next, the very latest on the path of hurricane maria, now a powerful and dangerous category 5 storm in the caribbean making landfall tonight on dominica. he's on his way to work in alaska. this is john. he's on his way to work in new mexico. willie and john both work for us, a business that employs over 90,000 people in the u.s. alone. we are the coca-cola company, and we make much more than our name suggests. we're an organic tea company. a premium juice company. we've got drinks for long days. for birthdays. for turning over new leaves. and all of our products rely on the same thing we all do... clean water. which is why we have john leading our efforts to replenish every drop of water we use. we believe our business thrives when our

steak house and discussed the probe, a conversation that was overheard by new york times reporter ken vogel. he heard a contention behind the scenes feud on how much to cooperate with the counsel. the white house counsel's office is being conservative. referring to mcgahn, he has documents locked in a safe. discussing the white house legal team cobb told dowd, i've got some reservations about one of them. colleagues may be wearing a wire to record conversations for mueller. joined now by two reporters who are well sourced inside this white house. >> olivia, have you heard -- i mean, as someone who reports on these folks every day, are you getting the palpable paranoia off the folks as well. >> certainly. that's been there since the beginning. it was there during the campaign with what was now a different group of people. i cannot overstate the level of incompetence here for members of the president's legal team to very loudly discuss these things near the "new york times" at a restaurant a few doors down from the "new york times" or any restaurant in washington loudly. that's something if y

this is a story about beef and fights among donald trump's top advisers but also about steak, ken vogel spotted trump's criminal lawyers chewing the fat at fancy washington steak house, steak goes for $60, wine list is 2011 kaber net that runs $3,000. problem is terrible choice of the restaurant right next to the "new york times," how the beef turned public. some trump aides worried that colleagues are wearing a wire for mueller. cobb still fuming over leaks from ex-member of the team who tried to out of jared kushner. might be reference to lawyer no longer on the team and reporting on. may see in upcoming weeks between don mcgahn, who represents white house as institution, witness to the comey firing and trump's effort to out of the attorney general own russia. what matters is -- "new york times" suggesting they are more than criminal defense team, mcgahn has papers in safe and another person talking about being a spy. we don't know why they're worried about wearing a wire. if not committing crimes not that scary. may want to test executive power and foreign policy claims against havin

>>> out front now, ken vogel. eporter for the new york times who heard president trump's attorney discussing the investigation. ken, let me start with you you're at a stake house, set the scene, did you see ty cobb before you sat down? did they sit down next to you? >> we actually, my source and i were seated before they came in we had probably been there for a half hour, my source points over my shoulder and says, hey, isn't that that guy? he's not the most inconspicuous fellow in the world, yes, it is him. we continued our lunch and throughout the conversation with the source, i'm kind of half leaning in trying to hear the conversation at the table next to me. my source kindly sort of excused himself, i said, you know, i'm going to hang out here and have a few more iced tea's, i hung out for another half hour, 45 minutes as they continued this conversation. >>. >> okay, so you're sitting there, if someone's sitting alone, you have an awareness, is that person listening in on your conversation, they didn't seem to

it ranges from reality show cameos to donors like the billionaire koch brothers, ken vogel to prominent investigators like keviner did dershwitz. some names don't matter but others do. they are suing for the names and also over trump allegedly taking foreign government moan says today's filing was spitting in the eye of transparency and they say they'll be fighting this in court. ken, start wherever you want. there is a lot here. >> obviously, if we believe that there is either a public policy or a legal reason why these names should be released, as the court did, in ordering this release, then disclosure today does not meet that legal rationale. the list includes 22 names including the names of the prime minister -- >> very partial? this is months and months and months and they say here's one weekend's names. as a lawyer, it is like they're deliberately trying to look defiant. >> and the crew is -- it is under year when the court will do. on the other story, you mentioned the manafort spokesman testifying. that's interesting. we haven't sustain grand jury really go for the folks, subpo

. >> and we know that as bob mueller is pulling together information, we've seen reports from ken vogel when the documents locked in a safe. there is now reporting about sean spicer's notebooks. apparently filled with information. and when mike allen tried to find out more about it, sean spicer said don't talk to me or i'll sick the authorities on you. >> yeah, there was an interesting -- i don't know what to make of that exchange. but one of the interesting quotes was a blind quote from an official saying there are probably people at the white house who wish they were nicer to sean spicer. and ghout thno doubt that is tr. >> do you think we'll see indictments by the end of the year, ambassador? >> it seems that they are rushing to try to do it, but i think it's premature. they should do their process thoroughly and before we have any kind of indictments. i wants a much information as possible and this move to put it on the record i think is very, very important. >> ambassador, always great to have your perspective. phil rucker, appreciate you joining us. up next, we're looking at who i

and one reporter in particular, "new york times" ken vogel spotted two of trump's lawyers at the nextn public, sitting outdoors, so vogel went ahead and listened in on the conversation. the two were loudly discussing the legal team's problem. he use what he heard and did more reporting. but here's what stood out to me, white house counsel don mcgahn has a couple of key documents locked in a safe. so that's the next challenge for reporters finding out exactly what's in pose documents, i suppose the work never ends. we'll see you on "reliable sources" next week. ueberries an. wow. and spinach! that was my favorite bite so far. (avo) new beneful grain free. out with the grain, in with the farm-raised chicken. healthful. flavorful. beneful. when it comes to planning trthe best routes,. nobody does it better. he's also a championship-winning football coach. look at that formation. but when it comes to mortgages, he's less confident. fortunately for andre, there's rocket mortgage by quicken loans. it's simple, so he can understand the details and be sure he's getting the right mortgage. app

this is a story about beef and fights among donald trump's top advisers but also about steak, ken vogellawyers chewing the fat at fancy washington steak house, steak goes for $60, wine lis

so ken vogel of the "new york times," hats off to him. within his rights in just sitting there and listening to this conversation. so legally, there's certainly no problem with this disclosure, but i think what they were talking about is something that every white house under investigation tries to deal with, which is how cooperative to be. there are often factions within the white house. here it appears these two lawyers, the outside lawyers, ty cobb who is the main outside lawyer at this point, wants to be more fullsome in the disclosures and the white house does not. the real curiosity of this scoop by "the new york times" is the reference to some documents in a safe that the white house counsel may be keeping. that is something that will certainly attract the interest of congressional investigators and of course the mueller team as well. >> phil mudd, there's also, according to the new york times, a sense of paranoia among white house staffers, some believing that other staffers have been wired by the special counsel, robert mueller,

ken vogel is "the new york times" investigative reporter writing this piece, breaking the news. ining me is dana milbank, reporter for "the washington post." ken, you overheard this revealing conversation at a popular d.c. steakhouse not far from the white house between two of the president's lawyer at dinner. update our audience. i want to put a couple key quotes from that conversation attributable to the white house lawyer ty cobb so the viewers have a better sense of what you overheard. you heard cobb saying, basically, the white house counsel's office is being very conservative with this stuff. our view is we're not hiding anything. he referenced white house lawyer don mcgahn, white house counsel, describing mcgahn spy and added mcgahn has a couple documents locked in a safe. so, for simplicity here, break down this competition. what do we have on each side. one cited supporting more cooperation and one with real reservations. how does this break? >> yeah, peter, they're substantive issues and then stylistic and personal issues. the substantive issues have to do with the abil

ken vogel, great reporting, thanks for being with us. >>> president trump minutes away from making hiser the united nations with nikki haley. we are following his entire visit. also, without even being there, the president had a huge role in the emmys last night and he might get that emmy if he was looking for. th he was looking for. at he was looking for. bp developed new, industry-leading software to monitor drilling operations in real-time, so our engineers can solve problems with the most precise data at their fingertips. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better. a trip back to the dthe doctor's office, mean just for a shot. but why go back there, when you can stay home... ...with neulasta onpro? strong chemo can put you at risk of serious infection. neulasta helps reduce infection risk by boosting your white blood cell count, which strengthens your immune system. in a key study, neulasta reduced the risk of infection from 17% to 1%... ...a 94% decrease. applied the day of chemo, neulasta onpro is designed to deliver neulasta the next day. neulasta i

what do we make of the fact that they're fielth ghting in a restaurant, ken vogel is sitting next tohem a block from the capital. i'm start with you, michael. he's sitting there and he overhears a conversation between two lawyers for the president, one is dodd and one is ty cobb. and they're talking about whether to release documents or not. it seems to me like this is heated up right now based on your reporting and vogels. this is right at the heart of the president. in watergate should there be a limited hangout or stone wall. these are phrases i was brought up with. your thoughts. >> there is tension in the white house among the lawyers on how to deal with the requests from mueller. should they hand over as many documents as possible? that's sort of cobb's point of view. the idea is get as much of this to mueller as possible because we've got nothing to hide, we shouldn't put executive privilege on them. the white house counsel is more conservative on that point and concerned about the precedent of waiving executive privilege and handing this stuff over to the white house. but the

for more on this, ken vogel, the reporter who broke "the new york times" story is going to join nicolleext hour here on msnbc. we'll be back after a quick break with a check of the markets as the trading day nears its close. or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith. who we paired with a humana team member to help address his own specific health needs. at humana, we take a personal approach to your health, to provide care that's just as unique as you are. no matter what your name is. if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis,... ...isn't it time to let the real you shine through? maybe it's time for otezla (apremilast). otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months,... ...with reduced redness,... ...thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has... ...no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. otezla may cause

as my colleague ken vogel discovered when he was going to an inocuous lunch at a steak house in d.c., there's dissension on his staff between ty cobb and was counsel don mcgahn over how forthcoming and rapid to be in terms of turning over these documents. in general what we're dealing with here is a white house moving ahead in terms of disaster recovery, spending the whole week on the united nations and deal with the north korea issue with this crisis gradually gaining momentum. as everyone has said before, bob mueller is not going to be stopped. and as philip said before in our reporting also shows this, i think there is a sense of resignation inside the white house they'll have to start answering these questions. and i can say from the level below the president, there is a desire to comply with what mueller is requesting out of a sense of self-preservation by the staff. however the president behaves, i think, and if he behaves outrageously or makes accusations and suggests as he has in the past or has had proxies like jay sekulow suggest, that he might somehow disrupt the investigat

this is a picture snapped by "times" reporter ken vogel overhearing ty cobb, he's the one with the mustache, discussing the dispute with white house counsel don mcgahn at a restaurant. the man across the table is trump lawyer and at the heart of the clash how much to cooperate with robert mueller's request for documents in his russia investigation. quote, the white house counsel's office is being very conservative with this stuff, mr. cobb with the mustache told mr. dowd. our view is we're not hiding anything. referring to mr. mcgahn, he added, he's got a couple documents locked in a safe. okay. cobb was also heard saying he had reservations about another white house lawyer calling that person an mcgahn spy. joining me now, reporter for "the new york times" and contributor yameesh alshandorf and matt miller, spoker spokesman for the justice department. okay. so i don't know where to start. there's just so many things to talk about in regards to this. but first, this is right across the street from your office, right? your colleague overheard this. >> this is not even across the street. it's

apparently loud discussion about what is happening inside the white house with some reporting now from ken vogel, peter baker of "the times," that people are essentially totally freaked out in the west wing. their suspicion and paranoia they are wired because of the russian investigation. cob and dow talking about the internal white house counsel and perhaps intentions there. this is the sort of simmering under current to all the policy discussion happening in d.c. >> it says a lot about the president's choice of lawyers. remember mark casowitz and his midnight e-mails that got him sent packing to journalists? now we have two guys talking loudly about internal issues in front of the reporter who was sitting next to them. so it just says a lot about there are too many lawyers, perhaps. >> i'm going to ask you two to hang out for a couple minutes longer because we have more coming up, not just on domestic policy but foreign policy, too. and looking overseas, another hurricane out in the atlantic threatening the already hard-hit caribbean. still struggling to recover from irma, we have the forecast

ken vogel, also with us, white house correspondent for the washington examine. staff writer. t did you have for lunch and how astounded were you that these two were speaking as loudly about something as sensitive as they were talking about. >> well, i had to the tuna salad. i highly recommend. right next to the times bureau i should add a few doors down. it's perhaps doubly astounding they would have this conversation at this restaurant where a number of power players are known to lunch. also reporters are known to lunch and times reporters in particular. it was -- i'm surprised that they were going into such detail about the russia investigation. i was actually meeting a source there. had a lunch with the source. i bid the source adieu. i said i'm going to hang out here for a minute and kind of took notes on my iphone as they went into detail about very critical issues, including this question of executive privilege and how much -- how sort of you know aggressive to be and either invoking privilege or in producing documents without invoking privilege to bob muler's team, spec