ken vogel, political reporter for "the new york times." ken, thank you, thank you very much. and thank you for doing work good enough to still stand up two years later and be a necessary reference for continuing breaking news. really appreciate it, my friend. >> i appreciate being on, rachel. >> thanks. all right. all right. big show tonight. coming up in a second, we're going to try something new, which always makes me a little nervous. but what the heck, one bold attempt. we got a new power strip for this, and everything. last time we tried it, it didn't work. i have high hopes for tonight. behr presents: 2 stains, 4 seasons. ordinary stains say they can do the job, but behr premium stain can weather any weather. behr premium semi-transparent stain and sealer, overall #1 rated, weathers it all. find our most advanced formula exclusively at the home depot. ♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller ♪i'm gonna follow the sun♪ ♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller ♪i'm gonna follow the sun transitions™ light under control™ and we got to know the friends of

ken vogel, political reporter for "the new york times." ken, thank you, thank you very much. and thank you for doing work good enough to still stand up two years later and be a necessary reference for continuing breaking news. really appreciate it, my friend. >> i appreciate being on, rachel. >> thanks. all right. >>> all right. big show tonight. coming up in a second, we're going to try something new, which always makes me a little nervous. but what the heck, one bold attempt. we have a new power strip for this and everything. last time we tried it, it didn't work. i have high hopes for tonight. we came here for the friends. and we got to know the friends of our friends. then our old friends from middle school, our mom, our ex and our boss joined forces to wish us happy birthday. then we discovered our uncle use to play in a band. and realized he was young once too. and we found others just like us. and just like that we felt a little less alone. but then something happened. we had to deal with spam, clickbait, fake news, and data misuse. that's going to change. from now on,

look, there is a very narrow, ken vogel, window here.r narrow vote count for gina haspel for her nomination. rand paul has been opposed to these programs. he seemed opposed to pompeo until all of a sudden he wasn't any more. so that's a big question. john mccain missing from the senate. he's always been somebody who is a very prominent voice speaking out against these programs, but of course he's not in washington to vote on this. what's the path here? >> it is important to note that this is not a partisan issue. this issue of enhanced interrogation tick 'niques which critics call torture, we've seen multiple raise concerns over the years when they happened, when they were first revealed. and subsequently they see it as a black mark, as do many democrats, on the cia, really on the united states of america as a whole. you point out they can't afford to lose many republicans and there are already some suspects who might find this to be a tricky vote or might at least give them a hard time. >> -- that was a real deeply divisive topic with t

joining us ken vogel, "the new york times." ken, i actually read this on your twitter feed.back story. you tweeted, sources tell me manafort was so aggressively pursuing money from russians and pro russian ukrainians because he stretched himself thin bailing out his former son-in-law jeffery, now he has flipped on manafort. take us through the legal drama and the family drama. >> yeah, there's a little bit of insult to injury here for paul manafort. >> yes. >> he was in sort of financial dire straits because he had gone in on a number of these real estate deals in california and new york with jeffrey yohai at the time his son-in-law, and these deals were distressed, they were in trouble and he continued to invest in them to try to bail his son-in-law out and himself to some extent. then his son-in-law and his daughter get divorced and he's still in this financial trouble, which sort of sets the stage at the time -- this was during the campaign. at the time you remember, now we see from these e-mails, that he is trying to get made whole from some of his former clients in ukra

was actually overheard violating attorney-client privilege at a washington restaurant by reporter ken vogel who took notes and reported on the conversation. that's never happened before. that's john dowd's unique contribution to defending a president. john dowd's public unprofessionalism as a lawyer makes it conceivable certainly to me that he could have said something so childish and so silly to robert mueller. you're screwing with the work of the president of the united states. everyone knows, and by everyone, i include high school students who have done a minimal amount of reading about presidents in trouble. everyone knows that that is not a legal argument for stopping legal process against the president of the united states. for investigations of violations of criminal or civil law. richard nixon was investigated by congressional committees and a special prosecutor during wartime. richard nixon was managing and losing the vietnam war every day that he was investigated, and he couldn't stop the investigations by saying you are screwing with the work of the president of the united states

ken vogel, and clarence page.g, shameless claim by trump that he's cleaned up everything when he's got this fixer out there with a shingle out, i can get you access to the president. he's doing it like all the old guys -- all the people -- i'm not going to mention their names now, but i grew up in a town where people did this. the guy gets elected. they don't want to work in the white house for 100 a year. they want to stay outside and make millions. this isn't new. but trump claiming he's different. >> i'll say two things. the first thing is if we want to include the white house perspective, is that they have all these people that don't have, quote, unquote, government experience running the white house. you think about people like ben carson, betsy devos. people said they didn't have the right experience, so they consider that draining the swamp. sarah sanders also said the reason why it wasn't effective or why they drained the swamp because the lobbying and the money they paid wasn't effective. it didn't change

. >> ken vogel, "new york times" political reporter, and clarence paige is "chicago tribune" columnist we make of this amazing, shameless claim by trump that he's cleaned up everything when he's got this fixer out there with a shingle out, i can get you access to the president. he's doing it like all the old guys -- i'm not going to mention their names out, a lot of them are deceased. but i grew up at a time when people did this. they helped get a guy elected, the guy gets elected, they don't want to work in the white house, they want to stay outside and make millions. trump says he's different. >> if he want to include the white house perspective, it's that they have all of these people that don't have quote/unquote government experience running the white house. you think about people like ben carson and betsey devos. people said they didn't have the right experience, so they consider that draining the swamp. sarah sanders also said the reason why it wasn't -- why it wasn't effective or why they drained the swamp was because the lobbying and the money that they paid wasn't effective.

joining me is ken vogel from the new york times.rfishing i imagine a guy or woman who sees a fish and spears it. you know what you're looking for. you're not netting fish, you're spearing them this guy is saying that the mueller people really do have a clear background information as i think from this guy said they know more about the campaign than he did. >> i think there's a message embedded in what he's saying there. >> remember the iceberg metaphor, you never know what mueller is up to, there's so much. >> it is rare to have a witness come out and talk about what was discussed. that is also fraught with peril. i think the message embedded in what he's saying potentially speaking through the media to other potential witnesses and possibly even to donald trump himself is be careful, they could be mueller's team could be setting you up for a perjury trap. in other words, if they're asking very specific questions about things that they already know the answer to. >> true or false questions. >> right, what is the purpose of that othe

ken vogel. jonathan lemire, and harry litman. i want to start with you, john. what stands is out to you when you see these stories and watch them unfold and watch these companies change their statement over and over again to more fulsomely admit what was going on and what you know of cohen, what you know of the president, what is the thing that is a big shining red light to you? >> more than anything, it is just that it is just question after question. each incremental development leads to three more questions. certainly remember, after the president was elected, there was great confusion in corporate america and people were looking for some insight into his state of mind, into what his agenda would be. i think -- it is certainly not unusual for people with access, people with insight into a chief executive's well being or politician's well being to offer their services. now mr. cohen did not register as a lobbyist, therefore that's one potential legal problem depending on how much work he did for these companies. he also has not suggested he had any ties to fo