>> kenji, what do you think about that? >> that's a lot different than going to their wedding and celebrating it. >> kenji, under this law if i'm a catholic loan officer candy s -- can i say i'm not going to give a loan? >> i think where this argument falls apart he's saying in his opinion this would not be a substantial burden. it's actually not his determination to make. what constitutes a substantial burden will come up on a case-by-case basis determined by a particular court. if you get a court that thinks this is a substantial burden for the loan officer not to give a loan to an unwed mother or gay couple that court is going to say that's a substantial burden. the representative also mentioned earlier case law. this goes back to the 1960s with the supreme court, 1963, sherrbert versus yoder. $5 fine deemed to be substantial to an amish school child. >> congressman, you point to this case in new mexico of a wedding photographer who was asked to take photographs of a wedding of a gay couple, chose not to, end up getting

we're going to from kenji. and representative klinko, the only openly gay member of the arizona legislature. governor brewer vetoed this. you had previously called it a state-sanctioned discrimination. >> to see a bill move through the house and senate and land on her desk is very discouraging for the lgbt community and gay rights throughout, i think not only our state but really throughout the country that's really a setback. in her vetoing the bill i really feel like there's a possible hope for reconciliation within our state and we can maybe move forward past this really sort of unfortunate chapter. >> in vetoing the bill, the governor said the bill could bring about unintended consequences and in the state with respects to religious freedom but doesn't believe in discrimination. certainly strong words from the governor. but it is still not protected except in a few cities in arizona, discrimination based on sexual orientation. >> that's absolutely true. and i really hope that out of this perhaps will start

journalist kenji goto is there and has this report for us. >> reporter: this is aleppo. the largest city in syria. where more than 2 million people live. severe fighting has turned this ancient city into rubble and debris. a burrow bomb has just been dropped in the middle of a rebel-controlled area. i can see a huge crater in the road. the bomb has ripped apart surrounding residential buildings. children are terrified. many are crying. people who live here tell me the government forces started dropping them about three months ago. they are made by packing barrels with explosives and materials like nails that are used as shrapnel. i was told they are dropped from assad's forces helicopters. one was still hovering above the city. the bomb are not controlled by any guiding devices. they fall wherever the wind takes them. the injured are rushed to a nearby hospital. i spoke with medical personnel. they tell me the bombs killed eight people and wounded more than 400. this doctor says nearly every day he deals with the aftermath of these attacks. >> a lot of killed men, injure

joining me now, kenji yoshino. professor of constitutional law at myu school of law.l professor and former president of the naacp legal defense fund. okay. let's start with this -- kenji, you were saying to any something off the camera, the conversation i just had with state senator pierce about what the initial justification or why they wanted to pass the bill. >> yeah. so, chris, on the one hand, i applaud you for applauding him in a way. i'm torn. on the one hand, it's great when politicians -- we're all make mistakes. it's great when people step up and say that. on the other hand, i spent half of last night listening to these arizona state hearings. >> on this bill. >> we are now online. on this bill. 1062. this, all of the comments that he gave, and all the comments his three colleagues for flipping, oh, we didn't realize this was anti-gay, people stood up on the floor and made these arguments ad nauseam it would be bad for gays and flowed out of this new mexico case. much hay was made of that. it's a little bit -- i'm torn. on the one hand i'd say it's great you

i want to bring in new york university professor kenji yusheno. he's been our legal guide to what's in the bill and the larger implications of it. your reaction to what the governor said. >> well, i think it was a really smart decision. she didn't wait until the very end. so i think that she had until friday i guess to veto it. i think it was good she did it early. it was fairly decisive. i think she gave dog whistles to both sides in the sense she said the family is under attack so that satisfies the religious right. then she also said i believe in nondiscrimination which satisfied the lgbt community, played it down the middle. >> before she made her ruling, you and i had a discussion with nancy barta, a state senator in arizona, a supporter of this bill, was a supporter and remained a supporter of this bill. and i pressed her on -- we both discussed with her if she could come up with one single example of discrimination based on religion in arizona that people of faith have suffered through. she couldn't come up with one other than some hypothet

and this man, kenji, is a legend, having trained fighters using a simple and effective philosophy thathere it is pasted on the wall behind the ring. one, speed. two, timing. three, distance. the same idea applies to the convention-shunning sushi techniques of new york city legend naomichi yasuda. until recently, the chef partner of one of the very best, if not the best sushi restaurant in new york. the sushi yasuda. a short while ago, under very mysterious and completely misreported circumstances, he left the manhattan restaurant which still bears his name. and at age 52, moved to tokyo to start all over again. i was determined to track him down and see what the hell he was doing. these days, this great man is running a 14-seat sushi bar in the manado district of tokyo. his wife naomi is his only helper. >> welcome to the place. thank you for coming. >> why did you do such a hard thing? >> this city, tokyo, this is kind of the maker of the sushi. so i just want to be the sushi chef in tokyo. >> yasuda is a friend, and my master in the sense that he's taught me pretty much everything i

. >> i want to introduce you to kenji yoshino.says that if a catholic loan officer doesn't want to loan to a divorced woman, he can't imagine that scenario happening, but he just said that would never happen. under this law, if i'm a loan officer with a sincere religious belief and i don't want to loan money to a divorced woman under this law, is that legal? >> that would be absolutely legal under this law. >> what do you make of his argument? >> yeah, i think that he's just -- well, i -- i really don't know what to make of that, because when i look at the history of trying to be -- say the things that are both true and kind here. when i think about what the impetus behind this bill was, it was this new mexico case, the photography case. >> a wedding photographer in new mexico refused to take photos at a same sex wedding? >> i believe so. the reason why the community considers this as an affront, it's a solution for the gays and lesbians rights problems. there isn't a statute that would protect gays and lesbians in the first place

joining us now is kenji yoshina. thank you for being leer. >> it's great to be here. >> i want to talk to you about what happened in arizona, let me ask you first about what happened today with this district court ruling in texas. to be clear, there's the supreme court. and there's the circuit court and the district court. this is the third level down from the supreme court. how important is this ruling beyond just the question of texas couples and whether or not it may result in their marriages. >> i think very important. usually think of the district court being lowest on the tote empole so they can get overruled. one thing trial courts are given deference on are facts. what this judge did was synced himself to other courts from kansas to california and whatever. gay parents are just as good as straight parents. he cited other district court cases. he's creating a web or a net that it's going to be very hard for an appellate court or supreme court to supersede. >> essentially trying to say those questions of fact w

. >> kenji yoshino. ted shaw. thank you, gentlemen. appreciate it. that is "all in." for this evens. "the rachel maddow show" begins now. >>> thanks to you, my friend. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. barney frank is with us in a minute. in 1985 a group called the parents music resource center tried to get congress to essentially come up with a labeling and/or censorship program for popular american music. we're having a bit of a moral panic at the time about kids these days and their degenerate music. so this parents group which was spearheaded by a bipartisan bunch including tipper gore and james baker's wife, susan baker, they formed this group and went after the music industry. there were these amazing congressional hearings in the '80s on this issue. where everybody from john denver, god bless him, to d. snyder of twisted sister turned out at these congressional hearings to taub about whether music really is pornography without the pictures and whether it should be treated as such. frank zappa testified in congress in 1985, called it an ill conceiv

joining us once again, kenji. the governor said the church goes to a gay-owned business in arizona, demands they print up some leaflets for a demonstration. >> yeah, so what's interesting about that is first of all, if the gay printer is holding himself out to the public sphere, he would have to print those. and if not, there could be a claim brought against him for discrimination. so they could be refused even now without 1062 passing by the religious printer. >> also in that analogy, the gay group is not a religious group, so they can't argue if this law passed, they couldn't argue on religious grounds that they wouldn't print up the stuff. >> exactly right. what's striking about this is nobody except for at the very end, i thought it was telling that he used an example of gay people because nobody is willing to say the word gay in defending the bill, because you had an entire interview where you tap dance the word gay. if you go to him and ask why he proposed the bill, he was very, very up front about saying it