like kenneth chesebro. that is why he is unindicted -- it was widely reported that he was talking to the arizona ag. i do not have personal knowledge, but that was reported in the press. i think that's one reason why you see in unindicted coke and ureter. and -- co-conspirator. that is a clue. there will be efforts by the state to see if they can get some of those other folks to cooperate. and then the timeline, in terms of getting to trial and getting through discovery and everything. i have no practice in arizona state court. i do not know if they have judges that move quickly. i think it would be quick to get a conspiracy of this magnitude to trial before the election. not that these people are up for election. >> it seems unlikely to me that it would be before the election. i think the question a plea deal is interesting. i think boris epstein is not indicted. >> the electrodynamics is different from the seven who are the acolytes of trump. they are people who presumably want future in their individual

yes, kenneth chesebro who has been pleaded guilty in georgia, who is unindicted co- conspirator number four in this arizona indictment. he is the one who came up with the idea, he had the beginning as of the idea just five days after the election, his first email to mr. troupe is saying what about if an alternate slate of electors shows up on january 6th, throwing things into chaos unless the state legislatures then decide who the slate should before, we could throw things into such chaos that the vote would go to the house and what that means is the vote by the house, under the 12th amendment, when there is no winner, means every state gets one vote, it is not all 450 and at that time, it was a 26 state majority and that would have meant the election went to trump so what i saw then, in this indictment, is the communications after mr. troupe is sent these memos that he asked mr. chesebro to write up to the white house. forest epstein then said, hey, can you replicate this in the other states? and that is what set mr. chesebro off, again, unindicted co-conspirator in a number for this

and kenneth chesebro may be finally cooperating but is not indicted but discussed in the indictment.hat prosecutors in arizona have amassed the evidence that they need to go a step further. it is horrible news for donald trump the middle of his criminal trial in manhattan. >> indeed. >> he is an unindicted coconspirator in this case. >> very quickly. there was a lot of criticism of fani willis rico case. this is an even more sprawling case, as you said, with even more people we hadn't heard before, christina bobb, boris epstein. to me it's a vindication in my mind, at least, of what she did in georgia. >> well, i think it suggests that fani willis was the immaculate career prosecutor we know her to be. tim will tell you this, too. when you're a prosecutor, there's no arbitrary limit on the number of people that you indictment in a case. you indictment the people who you have evidence against, core participants when you have a conspiracy setting like this and you don't arbitrarily say, well, i've only got room for 12 people or only got room for 13 people. your job as a prosecutor is t

arizona prosecutors and investigators met in december with kenneth chesebro. kenneth chesebro provided mays team with records, some previously unseen, that we got more information about those involved in the arizona effort. after that, they said the arizona investigation widened. " how did she do about this? it sounds like she starting at the top, which is the inverse of how the doj approach the january 6th related controversies. >> the arizona targets were the easiest of targets because, as you said, alex, they did it out in the open. they were tweeting about it, they were posting the video of what they did on december 14th when they signed the certificate, the fake certificate and send it to washington, d.c. these other seven individuals, the likes of john eastman, rudy giuliani, christina bobb, that are still rejected in this indictment because they have yet to be served here, these are individuals that were for targets here in part of a greater conspiracy that is outlined by chris mays. this investigation we reported on this last summer and clearly she had

. >> it is notable that -- vaughn, that kenneth chesebro seems to be and this is according to reportings from "the washingto post" seems to be all this. i'llal read an excerpt tonight. chris mayes, the attorney general had been squarely focused on conservatives late lastd year and then prosecutor met with kenneth chesebro. chesebro provided records of those involved in the arizona effort. after that, they said, the arizona effort widened. how did she go about this, vaughn? it started out near the top. >> the fake certificate and sent it to washington, d.c., these other seven individuals, the likes of john eastman, rudy giuliani, to christina bobb thai are still redacted in this indictment because they have yet to be actuallydi served here, these areve individuals that we tougher targets here and part of a greater conspiracy that is outlined by chris mayes, this investigation we first reported on this last summer and clearly she had what i call easier targets. she could havel focused on the electors but chris mayes who came into office in january last year intended to target and make it c

aide caught up with michigan prosecutors new searches for evidence from google and x involving kenneth chesebro. cnn has that report but we have not confirmed it. as we track all of the plot, most involved trump and his aides and others willing to help them. it takes a lot of people to pursue this many separate plots. i will not read them all out. there is roughly seven. in arizona, alone, it is 18 total people, republican operatives and aides charged with the crimes from 2020. that includes people who responded to truck campaign's call to pose as electors in states that biden had won. people get in trouble just for lying on their own taxes, just about their own finances or lying to a bank to take out a loan or start a business. lying to the federal government and the state government to steal an entire national election is a very big deal, legally and substantively. we are talking about right now. take the arizona residents who claim they were the real electors after trump had already lost. they are indicted for the fraud that you can see on your screen and charged with crimes of forgery and f

i think some of the evidence that came out from kenneth chesebro in wisconsin ended up providing more information that led to yesterday's indictments in arizona so if for trump, he may be able to run out the clock but for these other defendants, i think these things are gonna go on for the next few years and they might actually see some trials and some criminal convictions prosecutors in michigan, georgia, and nevada have also brought criminal charges against some of the people who signed on as fake electors in those states. >> explain why these state cases might be more successful than the federal case. ultimately well the federal case against trump for election interference, that's the one that's on hold. >> as this immunity issue is being put out. that's only against trump trump is one of many in georgia, and trump's, as you mentioned, is not part of this in arizona? there are different state laws that apply. so in arizona and in some other states, their stake fraud laws that apply here you're signing fraudulent documents saying this is an official document that is providing who th

sidney powell and kenneth chesebro you interview johnny's been last year do you think his financial situation? could affect his approach to the charges he's facing in georgia? >> i doubt it. and the reason why i say that is because when i spoke to him last year as all this stuff was still underway, this proceeding was still underway. he was quite strident and i think even to this day, he really has not acknowledged any kind of error or mistake or note of contrition throughout this whole proceeding. he seems to want to fight this until the last possible opportunity. and if you can't pay for his lawyers, many people can pay for lawyers. they get public defenders, right? >> all right. let's hop from georgia to florida when it comes to the classified documents case before judge aileen cannon there are questions about her conduct in this case. some people wonder if she's just inexperienced she was only confirmed at the end of 2020, former trump white house attorney could ty cobb is not fully buying the idea that this is just inexperienced. and again, before i run this clip, i just want to remind p

public records now include females from jim, a wisconsin attorney who worked with it campaign, or kenneth chesebro himself. a lot of these emails are quoted in this indictment as well, which makes some of those other and talk documents are damning can they could say we were just doing this as a contingency plan, but in this indictment you see a quotation to an email that was sent on december 14, basically saying, we have got to hurry and rush in, get this lawsuit on file, because that is intent did to be cover for the fake electors. that is a transparent admission , as any, that the dog was-- sorry, that the tail was wagging the dog here, right? >> willie, so, they were doing good actual legal work? they were rolling up their other witnesses, you can use ken chesebro and others to help make this case more airtight? this, of course, proves that i probably shouldn't have read hunter thompson throughout law school, and maybe i would be as smart as lisa. but maybe i figured it out. that is an argument. for people who say, why is it taking so long? maybe they are building off of other cases. >> yeah. i