kenneth clark had great hope for brown v. board of education but he also thought that the court had erred in the sense that it did not absolutely say what his study said. a study suggested that segregated public schools not only harmed the intellectual and psychological development of black children that but segregation also harmed white children. the court never said anything about that. and then in his later life he kept saying the courts to anybody who asked him was he cannot delay. any sign of delay from the courts to implement their decision would embolden and encourage the opposition and that's exactly what happened. >> guest: right and the reality was particularly in the rural south but the school didn't segregated from 1969 and 70 with the segregation of holmes county. and of course many schools in the north remained beyond the reach of brown as they thought up until the 1970s. we know what happened in boston at that point. >> host: but did springfield feel that they were on beyond the reach of brown or do they have a

kenneth clark had great hope for brown v. board of education but he also thought the court had aired in the sense that it did not say that segregated public schools not only harmed the intellectual and psychological development of black people but also harmed white children. the court never said anything about that. and then he kept saying that it's the right to anybody who asked him was you could not delay. any sign of delay from the courts to implement their decision would really embolden and encourage the opposition. >> guest: right and the reality particular in a rural south public schools did not segregated until 1969 or 70 with the decision of alexander v. holmes county. many schools in the north north remain beyond the reach of brown up until the 1970s and we know what happened in boston at that point. >> host: did springfield feel that they were beyond the reach of brown or did they have a more enlightened disposition about bringing black and white children, and those days black and white children together in a unitar

kenneth clark had great hope for brown v. board of education, but he also this was not what we say what his study said. public schools not only harmed the intellectual and psychological development of black children, but also harmed white children. but the court never said anything about that. in his other life he kept saying that to anybody who asked him was you could not delay any sign of delay from the court to implement their decision would be merely emboldened and encourage the opposition. just go right. the reality was particularly in the rural south public school student desegregate until 1969, 70 with alexander v. holmes county. you know, many schools in the north remained beyond the reach of brown as they thought up until the 1970s and we know what happened in boston at that point. >> host: is in springfield that they were beyond or did they have more enlightened disposition about bringing black and white children together quiet they thought too they were different from the south. >> guest: the interesting thing is t

van woodward, kenneth clark.uld you speak to how he orchestrated all of those pieces in putting these cases together? thank you. >> thank you. i think that one of the great things about marshall is he had a great example in houston of using all kinds of people to be part of the legal team. you know, he watched charles houston use many white, many jewish lawyers who were working on the naacp to participate in legal cases all throughout the country. so it was nothing unusual for him to seek a broad range of people who were oriented to the cause, not just basically the race but the justice he was trying to seek. so he would put a team together that could get the job done and that had the ability to see the job through. and so when it came time for example, jack greenberg to become the head of the naacp legal team, you know, there was some criticism that, you know, how can a jewish lawyer become the head of the black litigation strategy? well, he took the view that greenberg was qualified to do the job, committed to

van woodward, kenneth clark.you speak to how he orchestrated all of those pieces in putting these cases together? thank you. >> thank you. i think that one of the great things about marshall is he had a great example in houston of using all kinds of people to be part of the legal team. you know, he watch eed charles houston use many white, many jewish lawyers who were working on the naacp to participate in legal cases all throughout the country. so it was nothing unusual for him to seek a broad range of people who were oriented to the cause, not just basically the race but the justice he was trying to seek. so he would put a team together that could get the job done and that had the ability to see the job through. and so when it came time for example, jack greenberg to become the head of the naacp legal team, you know, there was some criticism that, you know, how can a jewish lawyer become the head of the black litigation strategy? well, he took the view that greenberg was qualified to do the job, committed to th

kenneth clark conducted a day mouse doll study, he gave black children white or brown dolls to play withrd, black children chose the white dolls, and said they were nice when black dolls were bad. when asked to identify themselves with the brown dolls, some of them were reduced to crying. dew disney dock mcstuffin's, showing the black dolls are not only important but big business these days. when you have a character, she's not sexy, she's age appropriate, she's mostly brain, you know, big headed doll and does seem to be selling cross racial lines, she's a huge, huge disney character at this point and not a princess. does that suggest to you something different going on in the doll world. >> doc has been around since 2012 and she's been in the top 10 toys for girls since 2012, and she's, you know, aspirati aspirational, she makes kids want to be a doctor just like her mother. so it's really egreat, and it's great to see, and she really does break down that whole racial barrier for kids, it's amazing. >> your research is right at the core of this question of the extent to which black baby