. >> kermit baker chief economist for the institute of architects. nice to have you on the program. thank you so much for joining us. according to the aia's latest survey, renovations are making a big comeback. is that how you see it? and why is that? >> well, renovations are a $250 billion industry, according to our estimates. that's down a bit from its peak, but it's bigger than the housing market now and for a lot of good reasons, i think. the housing market, new construction is having a lot of problems. so folks are turning to renovations as a way to avoid having to buy and sell homes in this market. >> now, prices as far as your average home out there, are they still too high? do prices still come down? >> no. i think prices relative to incomes is about where they have been historically. they've adjusted pretty much -- in most markets pretty fully. >> not necessarily buying a house that's an issue because prices have come down. but obviously selling your own house could be an issue and getting a mortgage is tough. >> no. selling a house in this market is difficult. credit is st