and at a certain point in the evening i left with kerouac to go see somebody else. and as i left, ginsberg yelled at me, 'we'll get you through your children.' i already had children, by the way. and he was an early out-of-the-closet homosexual and a--and a--and a preacher of the superiority of homosexuality to heterosexuality, so there was a double meaning in that. (end of excerpt) c-span: there's a dedication in your book 'to the one but for whom'--should we assume that... >> guest: i think you have to assume that, yes. c-span: where--where did you meet mr. podhoretz? >> guest: oh, when we met, he was a kid, he was about 16 and i was his older friend. he used to cry on my shoulder. and then life took us apart. i got married and i had two children, and he went off to cambridge and then he was in the army. and then i got divorced and then we ended up working together in the same office, and... c-span: where? >> guest: at commentary magazine. and that was that. c-span: what year did you marry? >> guest: we married in 1956. c-span: when he was here, he said to me, 'pl