and kevin bankston is suggesting that the designers up front would have to design a way to get into them, and give it to somebody. in this case, the federal government. >> or have access to it. that is exactly what happened in 1994 when we were looking at the wireless networks that were developing as well. same arguments were made about crushing innovation at that point. i think it's fair to say that that didn't happen. but it's a fair point. it's a good question as to how this is going to be implemented. the costs that would be imposed on the private sector, that is a real issue. but i think from the government's perspective, it's the inability to access some of these communications. the growing use and volume of these communications. and the speed with which they're able to then monitor, all of which is hindered under current law. >> kevin bankston? >> there simply is no record as of yet to support the conclusion that these technologies are posing an insurmountable problem for law enforcement. what there is a record of, however, is how these so-called lawful intercept programs have act