i don't in anything about kevin byrnes' personal life or the other ceos we know a lot about elizabethis gendered about that. i just wish we were scrutinizing all equally and were paying this attention to the men who have been harming people and who are still getting away with it we've continued to invest in these men so kevin byrnes just started another job. his old company is facing thousands of lawsuits around the harm they've caused children and people i think people should be held accountable for the harm that they cause and i don't see that happening. elizabeth holmes shouldn't be alone in this category >> i doan think you have a good point because when i look at the examples you give, we work, uber, facebook, tesla, they all actually have a product or service that does what it says it's going to do you could argue that uber is not -- the culture was bad technology that fundamentally changed transportation the same for facebook and tesla. what if this elizabeth holmes case is more like bernie madoff whose personal life did get poked into and examined for good reason she's on tria