to discuss the parallels, we are ginned by kevin eckstrom and kim lawton from religion and ethics news weekly. let me start with you. what are the parallels between what happened at state and the long running sex abuse scandal in the catholic church? >> you have people who should have known better who made bad decisions. often times the worst part of the scandal is not necessarily the abuse. as bad as it is, it's the cover up that gets people upset. you saw that with bishops who moveed from one place to another and saw it at state where they knew what was going on and didn't report it from the outside it looks like they tried to keep it quiet. >> they're moved locations and allowed jerry san dusk to have access to a satellite campus and it's like the same thing you are mentioning with the priests being moved even though you know something is going on. it's that effort to protect the institution that seems to take over. >> right. that's what a lot of people are noticing. circle the wagons and protect the institution at the expense of the children. that was one of the parallels and one o