in fact, kevin hassett has argued for every dollar increase in debt, there should be three dollars ofdollars? it used to be do. >> one to one is not good enough now. we're in an emergency situation. joe biden has spent $5 trillion the, okay? $5 trillion in two the lousy years, for heaven sakes, so that's without to stop. scott perry was on our show, he wants four to one. i don't care what it is, you will never default on the debt, ever. revenues are flowing in all the time to pay interest on the 10-year bond or whatever and so forth and so on, so this whole kabooky theater and politics, joe biden is trying to stand there and not negotiate. i'm going to make a prediction with you, that position of his will only last another week or two, and then he will fold. and you've already got senate democrats, even joe manchin, saying there has to be a negotiation. so this cannot hold, and there's got to be -- new spending caps, new sequestration automatic across the board cut rules and lower spending to raise this debt ceiling. will must be. charles: and from that old pr point of view are, the r