[laughter] kevin: lord know, my poor mom. god bless you -- >> at? where were you? sacrament in denver, st. patrick's -- >> did you keep getting expelled or what? [laughter] kevin: exactly. it speaks back to what ray -- rachel was saying about being able to afford a quality education. and if you're a participant, you really want your -- a parent, you really want your children to get a good education, but here's the thing, cardinal dolan. i feel there's a bit of a shift in our culture away from -- let me share this stat here. the importance of religion to americans. >> oh. kevin: i grew up, it was incredibly important p. in fact, it was mandatory, i don't mind telling you. you were definitely going to be at a mass, brother, every single sunday is. but as you look there, i'm just curious, what do you think is behind what's happening right now in. >> well, you -- this is really something. this is very accurate, i'm afraid. so what you've got are catholic schools thrived when we had what you might if call an intact, cohesive catholic culture. they were an essential part