do immense which included kgb codes. the state department when they learned about it was horrified over this because it would cause a huge diplomatic flap, and complained to roosevelt and roosevelt ordered donovan to turn the codes back over to the soviets. in fact donovan had his men taken to andre d'amico in washington who didn't believe for a new york minute that his men had an copy the codes inuit already. not only actually had donovan copied the codes but the enterprising then sold the codes to the japanese where you were a think about 70,000 bucks. free enterprise you know lives alive and well. eventually donovan could not overcome his political enemies. he had drafted a plan for a post-war central intelligence agency, post-war cia that he wanted to lead but walter trail him, who was a white house reporter for the mccormick patterson chain which was very anti-roosevelt, a republican chain which published the "washington times" herald in washington got a copy of donovan's secret plan for setting up the cia and he pu

donovan proposed in the winter of 1943 to set up a liaison arrangement with the in kgb, and he flew tomoscow to try to set that up. he thought he had rose on board with a. the joint chiefs were pretty much on board with it. and asked got something set up with the head of the nkgb been. they were going to exchange officers, and was going to be a soviet group come to washington and in oss group come to moscow. both spy chiefs knew that these groups would be spying on the other. this was donovan's opportunity to get into the soviet union with his agent and moscow. and also to get material from the soviets used to the war. when j. edgar hoover heard about this plan he went bananas. and lobbied roosevelt not to allow the soviet officers and, not to have this exchange program. hoover's view was he had his hands full already, keeping an eye on all the soviets that were here already in the united states spy. so the plan got nixed. even so, donovan had fairly robust exchange of information with the nkgb throughout from 1943 on. they exchange actually a lot of intelligence. donovan supplied some

[laughter] and reagan goes, i was kind of hoping it would be the kgb. [laughter] on second thought, he would not admit that. and that exchange was chronicled by a nurse in the room who went home that day and wrote down five pages of notes detailing everything she said to the president. i got her on the phone and i was talking to her. she said i took some notes. i'm not sure i'm allowed to read them to you though. i said oh you are, please read them. she read them and almost like that, and i love that because if you really think about what he is saying is a is turning this tragedy into a joke and reinforcing the time. this was the height of the cold war. reports are literally coming. i saw them, they're coming across top officials desks in the country warning about an imminent soviet invasion. here reagan is talking about the kgb, bringing it all back in a joking way. wanting to reassure everyone around him that he was okay and to kind of highlight the time. and so, that is basically the book with a lot of other stuff in it. if anyone has any questions,

in fact, a west german germing was attacked in a mustard gas attack by the kgb anyway.s interesting that the end of the story that he himself realized he couldn't solve the problem the way he tried to with the construction of the wall, but as i say by that time, kennedy was gone. >> guest: yeah. germany was always the prize for the soviets. >> host: yeah. >> guest: it was the prize because it was economically stronger. it was the prize because it was at the center of europe. it was the prize because of history, and president kennedy, and the epilogue goes into this in some detail. >> host: yeah. >> guest: president kennedy as the cuban missile crisis unfolds talks about how this is really ultimately about berlin and the soviets are not going to shed light over cuba, but they just might over berlin. one was very watchful while responding to what would happen in berlin, and you're right, they asked a lot of questions about history. had we not responded in 1948 and berlin disappeared at that point as a free island, would we have had germanupification as -- unification as w

in fact, a west german engineer was attacked in a mustard gas attack probably by the kgb and it's interesting, that he then himself realized he couldn't solve this problem the way he had tried to with a construction of the war. but as i say by that time kennedy was gone. >> guest: yeah. germany was always the prize for the soviets. >> host: yeah. >> guest: it was the prize because it was economically stronger. it was the prize because it was at the center of europe. it was a prize because of history. and president kennedy and they go into this in some detail. president kennedy as the cuban missile crisis unfolds talks about how he thinks this is really ultimately about berlin. >> host: yeah. >> guest: the soviets are not going to shed light over cuba but they might just over berlin and so one was very watchful while responding to what would happen in berlin, and you're right. how do we not respond to the 1948 and if berlin had disappeared, west berlin might have disappeared at that point as a free island, would we ever have german unification as we had it. and europe reuniting as part of the

a west german engineer was attacked in a mustard gas attack by the kgb anyway.e then himself realized he couldn't solve the problem the way he tried to with the construction of the wall but as i say at that time kennedy was gone. >> yeah. germany was always the prize for the soviets. >> yeah. >> it was the prize because it was economically stronger. it was the prize because it was the center of europe. president kennedy, as the cuban missile crisis unfolds, talks about how he thinks that this is really ultimately about berlin. >> yes. >> the soviets are not going to shed light over cuba but they might just over berlin. and so one was very watchful while responding to what would happen in berlin. and you're right. had we respond in 1948 and had berlin disappeared, west berlin disappeared at that point as a free island would we have ever had german unification as we had it? and europe reuniting as part of the free world? i don't know. you know, how things happened over cuba, if the missiles had been implanted at that time. if it became dangerous. and khrushchev we

in fact, a west german engineer was attacked in a mustard gas attack probably by the kgb anyway.o it's very interesting that the end of the story he then, himself, realized that he couldn't solve this problem the way he had tried to with the construction of the wall. but as i say, by that time kennedy was gone. >> yeah. germany was always the prize or the soviets. it was economically stronger, it was at the center of europe, it was prized because of history, and president kennedy -- and the epilogue goes into this in some detail -- president kennedy as the cuban missile crisis unfolds how he thinks this is, ultimately, about berlin. >> yes. >> the sow yets are not -- soviets are not going to shed life over cuba, but they might just over berlin. so one was very watchful while responding to what would happen in berlin. and you're right, one could ask a lot of questions about history. had we not responded in 1948 and if berlin had disappeared, west berlin disappeared as a free island, would we have ever had german unification as we had it? and europe reuniting as part of the free wo

though once close relationship between the two, including the tough-talking former kgb officer and whoas -- the russian president, the soft-spoken president, the soft-spoken twitter and busiest has increasingly become fractious. host: again, that story this morning from "the australian" newspaper. newspaper. terry joins us from blackburn virginia. how do you think the world views america? caller: in regards to the ideals of our country, the people in western europe that i know find it amazing that the richest -- "richest country in the world" is unwilling to provide health care to its citizens. they want to engage in battles against working-class people. in general, the overview of america's. few of sexuality is an embarrassment to most europeans i know. in general, the overview of our nation is one fabulously negative point of view. thank you. host: thank you for the call. next is joe joining us from massachusetts. good morning. welcome to the conversation. caller: good morning. i think the rest of the world recognizes the hypocrisy of america, where we claim to be a nation of laws. h

she was about to get killed by the kgb. went to the fbi, told everything that she knew, gave them permission on two or three spiring said nbc. the feds were investigating that case. the way they investigated it was to convene a secret grand jury. then they started subpoenaing of the people that she named. not surprisingly when somebody gets subpoenaed and showed up in the grand jury room they either live or took the fifth amendment. they couldn't get the indictment of the spy circle that they were going for. they did abeyance which. 1946, they went after leaders of the communist party. this being a secret grand jury investigation everybody was writing about it, new york times and all the papers of the day. increasing pressure to do something about these malls and the government. date in switch. and what they have in common with the day is the choices that individual political figures make under pressure to save their own careers, save their own backsides. and then to achieve policy goals. they would not be able to get that