say we remain opposed to the idea of bringing people to the states to try them, people like khalid shaikh mohammed. here's a portion of the letter, quote, as you acknowledge in your testimony before the senate judiciary committee in november, your decision to prosecute enemy combatants captured on foreign battlefields like khalid 145eubg mohammed is without precedence in our history. the challenges do not give us proper moment to break that precedent. they go on to say it is only logical and strategically wise to do through military commissions preferably at guantanamo bay and not on u.s. sail, jane. jane: didn't some of the senators try to do something similar last year and why would they expect a few months later for it to be any more successful? >> reporter: they d last year they tried to get an amendment attached to the appropriations bill, that was senator graham heading that up, trying to cut off any funding that would allow the trials to come to the u.s. to be done in civilian courtrooms. he lost that 54-45 and moss democrats lined up in standing with the administration, saying they had to

you know, khalid shaikh mohammed would agree with him perfectly.s ready to be killed and he would let gibbs do it himself. >> what about the other criticism here is just simply the platform. is it this idea it himself. >> what about the platform? this idea you would give ksm this public platform to maybe decide to get his own -- represent himself and go up there and start railing and ranting and raving in the courtroom. >> the federal -- >> moussaoui did do that. >> dedo that but when is the last time you heard from him? >> do you not think there's a difference between a moussaoui and a ksm? >> i'm not sure there is. moussaoui was more effusive person and hadn't been treated the way ksm has been treated the last few years. i don't think that's any -- look, in guantanamo ksm wrote a manifesto as to why he did 9/11. it's offensive and rude. what did the judge in guantanamo do? put it on the internet. >> you're saying there's a platform in military commissions just as much as there's a platform in federal court? >> the platform comes with the territor

the khalid shaikh mohammed trial being moved away from new york city.linger on. talk they may not end up sending those gitmo detainees to illinois after all. there is after all a very contested senate race in that state. >> i think there was a sense among the democratic party that they underestimated how much anger and concern there is out there on this issue. scott brown used it in his campaign in massachusetts. said that we should not be spending taxpayer money on lawyers -- we should use taxpayer money rather on the terrorists in terms for weapons to stop them, rather than on lawyers to defend them. that was a rallying cry for his campaign. his advisers told me that they thought it was the number one issue. clearly, there were those in washington that recognized that, and then, of course, the decision made to move that terror trial out of new york. so this is sort of one of those issues. jobs and the economy, the top issue. terrorism and national security is another very important issue that democrats have to be weary of. >> david, how -- how quickly

i don't know what a defense lawyer would do in civilian court in defending khalid shaikh mohammed, because>> they make a statement -- i said this in another context. there was a lot of things the president said he would do about the war. he is getting briefings at 7:00 in the morning. it is easy to say what you will do when you are not getting those briefings. in the context of the military trial versus civilian court, you served in the military. and the fact you said that our military -- they areç brought there when they are tried and they are u.s. citizens. >> the system is a very fair. there are certain things it does not have come up for instance trial by jury. you have panels. it seems to me we provide additional resources to people who have tenuous ties to america that we don't apply to our own people. it seems to me that is wrong. [applause] of one to get everybody's response. it was reported some arabic speaking soldiers may have been plotting to poison the food supply in south carolina. should the u.s. considered constricting investments -- constricting innocence of muslim soldie

as i understand it, khalid shaikh mohammed said he would plead guilty and that he wanted to be executed. so he could be a martyr for his people. i think even having said that, he deserves at least an opportunity to -- for a trial. but i think when you have the capacity of doing it, a place as good as guantanamo it ought to be done there. and it shouldn't be brought to this country on our shores. and i think you are seeing more and more people getting upset about this. and it's not so much a political thing as it is just a domestic security thing that people are concerned about. >> thank you very much, senator hatch. >> madam chair, i just have to add, i don't think ronald reagan deserves to be in this discussion. you talk about 1986, that was before the activities of the '90s and when 9/11 brought a whole new threat to our views. now when 9/11 happened, president bush took a number of actions. there are some that i think where he's been proven wrong, and i would hope we would learn from releasing detainees. that was wrong. he made the right decision when he did treat jose padilla as an

if you look now at the decision by attorney general holder to bring khalid shaikh mohammed to the united states and try him in civilian court, given the rights of an american citizen, their efforts to close guantanamo bay, the lack of interrogation policy, there are a whole range of things this administration is doing that make us less safe and i think that my dad has been very concerned about that. bill: i apologize for the interruption, i'm ll out -- almost out of time but you're part of a documentary about the surge in iraq. i want to play a clip out of it, ambassador ryan crocker. >> it wasn't just the additional forces we put in, it of the commitment that was behind those forces, and i think that is what really gave them the conviction that this was the time to make a stand, and they did. bill: there's a great trailer on a website that is part of this production here. tell us about it. >> understanding the surge.org is a place where people can go to watch this tremendous documentary that's based on 50 hours of interviews with the officers who were involved in the surge. there were s

look, reasonable people can disagree on whether khalid shaikh mohammed should be tried in new york city, which apparently he is not going to be. there's all sorts of areas for legitimate debate on how we handle terrorism. but let's not cast these aspersions on people's motives. let's not call people soft. that has to end. >> nbc news can't confirm the story that there was a deal cut, so he doesn't face the death penalty. but is that where the republicans will come back? we're not going to get to hang him, we're not going to get to execute him? >> sure. >> and the point to that is, don't you want that out in a terrorist's mind in the last moment? if i choose -- if something caused ripped reid, for example, not to go into the bathroom where he would have been able to destroy that plane without anybody interfering with him, to stay in his seat and light his shoos on fire with people sitting around him, some doubt existed in his mind. don't you want the reward that if you doubt? >> sure, you want to use every tool in your disposal. in the same way what apparently has gotten this guy to talk

. >> if we waited in the media business until someone was convicted we wouldn't cover khalid shaikh mohammedand elliss, suppose that 60 minutes had gone into a republican senator's office and the republican senator's office had called the cops. >> and the correspondent was arrested. >> and the correspondent was arrested. >> i promise we'd cover it. >> new york times would have been saying this is suppression of free speech by this poor-- >> and not only wearing hard hats and access to telephone boxes. i mean, this is, we'll wait and see what the court case says, but from all appearances, it looks like a real news story. i mean, it's something that should be covered and you know, unfortunately, unfortunately, of course, there are lots of stories that don't get covered and unfortunately this is the way it's covered. lots of times it gets covered and then they're exonerated and not covered and not political. it's just people are more interested when people get caught. >> does it seem like a case of the media trying to kill the messenger, messenger who broke the acorn story? >> some media. i don

isn amendment by peter king on the republican side to cut off funding for the khalid shaikh mohammedsses has gained any latitude on that. the we will be watching it closely. host: and what about democratic senators? Ñihave your word any reaction fm this news that they will rally behind president? guest: on the senate side, linda grant says he is going to attach an amendment to do the same thing to the next vehicle you can find in the senate. he was hopeful as of a couple of weeksxd ago that he had enough votes now to prevail. if either peter king or linda gramm prevail, that would be a pretty crushing defeat for the obama white house and a rebuke to them. i do not know if they have the votes right now. i think is going to be very close and something to watch in the next couple of weeks. host: michael isikoff with "newsweek" we appreciate it very much. up next, a name that are consistent c-span viewers will know. he is a senior fellow and has been testifying on capitol hill as of late about the economy deficits, etcetera. we will talk to simon johnson next. >> the commerce department

where eric holder is under the gun as far as making a decision to hold a civilian trial for khalid shaikh mohammed in manhattan, the fact that he wants to dairy out criminal investigations of cia interrogators, listen, i think it's important we know if anyone who is involved in guantanamo representing a guantanamo detainee was also involved in the investigation of the cia interrogators. i mean, to me, eric holder owes it to the american people, an absolute moral obligation to the american people, and also just in his own interests, if i were in eric holder's position, i would want everyone to know i'm doing everything -- honestly, there are no conflicts of interest and let the american people decide whether or not they believe are the -- if the attorneys are in any way compromised by the representation. so this to me is arrogance on eric holder's part, just like it was arrogant for him to put the ksm trial in lower manhattan without speaking to anyone in the new york city police department, new york city administration, anybody at all involving security. megyn: what do you say to those who say thi

including democrat jim webb out of virginia, blanche lincoln of arkansas, support for trying khalid shaikh mohammed and four others steps from the worst terror attack on american soil dwindling in recent days, the white house saying new york is a viable option, but if there is no money for a civilian trial, how can you have one in the first place? we'll put that to steven hayes, he's been digging on the story and interesting findings coming up. martha: he's done great work on that. coming up, minnesota's republican governor making waves, comparing our nation's spending habits with bernie madoff's. we have him live to ask him what he means by that and what he would do to balance the federal check book, bill. bill: also, some incredible new video, the all-out brawl at a high school game. not supposed to happen this way. martha: that's incredible. bill: they were tasered by the police. the school superintendent is speaking out. in fact he's live with us today on the move by the police and the move by the students. >> bottom line is this, we simply cannot continue to spend as if deficits don't have con

khalid shaikh mohammed graduated through these levels and gave us everything he knew about his plansr attacks. host: an article in the christian science monitor, a a "new role for robach droid war years." are you concerned at all that by using these drones we might be on the road to giving more response ability to machines and taking away the human element involved in operating these machines and being involved in warfare? guest: not at all, these drones instead of being in the cockpit, they're in a virtual cockpit. i think it is run by a military air force base in nevada. and the cia has done it elsewhere. but no, they are manned by human beings. it is no different than using a cruise missile or any other tool of warfare except that they're much more effective. these are extremely effective tools. the we need to use them in the war on terror, but they cannot be a substitute. ifouanaprehe ave u nto pture emli. onur ht: leor reblanar oul, ok.,adangohe. ll: gd mni, areat bo. bohttft iawoun nny. w mity li oic ck in 25, a pital rrtns esot w aar. i nnoheth' gng rli tt. enncrration- enhand

is at war, and then his next sentence, he came back around and started justifying bringing khalid shaikh mohammedss what you do with guantanamo bay, and we must understand that come in, see, that is another aspect of the rules of engagement that we must have -- and we must understand that, see, that is another aspect of the rules of engagement that we must have. he is all lawyered up and ready to go through the system. those gentlemen should be sent to guantanamo bay, and they have to be understood -- it has to be understood that they are illegal and in the combatants, and that is part of the domestic woe of engagement -- and they are illegal and enemy combatants -- illegal enemy combatants, and that is part of the domestic rules of engagement. conservative versus progressive, liberal, socialists, whatever you want to call them, but there is also an undermining aspect to that. there are also irregulars on this political battlefield, and that is called acorn. it is called the new black panther party. all of these people who are under -- seeking to undermine this political process, this a lecter pr

and i can't even begin to imagine what khalid shaikh mohammed would do if that trial is within the confinestates and not a military tribunal. i know that you have to be a loyal member of the administration, all of you. and i accept that. but i think it's a dumb, stupid approach to take when we have the facilities that are perfectly capable of taking care of these people and doing it in a way with a military commission that makes sense, is legal, after we corrected the military commission statute. and totally acceptable, it seems to me. >> would the senator yield? >> sure. >> that was quite a potent statement you made there. >> yeah it was. >> recognize that these five men before us are members of an administration and, therefore, the implication they can only talk based upon what they've been instructed to say as opposed to being profound professionals in their field, as opposed to what they might actually feel. so are you saying they're just saying what they've been told to say? >> i've only been here 34 years, but i can say i've seen administration after administration executives support

khalid shaikh mohammed graduated through these levels and gave us everything he knew about his plansicle in the christian science monitor, a a "new role for robach droid war years." are you concerned at all that by using these drones we might be on the road to giving more response ability to machines and taking away the human element involved in operating these machines and being involved in warfare? guest: not at all, these drones instead of being in the cockpit, they're in a virtual cockpit. i think it is run by a military air force base in nevada. and the cia has done it elsewhere. but no, they are manned by human beings. it is no different than using a cruise missile or any other tool of warfare except that they're much more effective. these are extremely effective tools. the we need to use them in the war on terror, but they cannot be a substitute. if you can capture them alive, you want to capture them alive. on our host: line for republicans are of tulsa, okla., hadrian, go ahead. caller: good morning, a great book. i bought it after i saw you on hannity. i was a military poli

khalid shaikh mohammed and his cohorts should not be tried in our courts.y should be tried in a military tribunal at guantÁnamo bay. [cheers and applause] >> and it means being prepared to confront rogue regimes like north korea and iran. let the world know this, if nothing else, america stands with israel. [cheers and applause] >> and it also means being prepared to defend our security today and tomorrow. as communist china continues to build its military at a frenetic pace, our relationship with china should look like this. one hand extended in diplomacy and trade, and the other hand resting comfortably on the holster of the arsenal of democracy. [cheers and applause] >> and closer to home we reverse american decline by giving back some good old common sense. the american people know we can't borrow and spend and they'll our way back to a growing country. they know that deficits and debt threaten our prosperity and our posterity. they know we can't bail out everything business in america, and they know the freedom to succeed must include the freedom to fa

khalid shaikh mohammed and his cohorts should not be tried i our courts.eans being prepared to confront rogue regimes like north korea and iran. let the world know this, if nothing else, america stands with israel. [cheers and applause] >> and it also means being prepared to defend our security today and tomorrow. as communist china continues to build its military at a frenetic pace, our relationship with china should look like this. one hand extended in diplomacy and trade, and the other hand resting comfortably on the holster of the arsenal of democracy. [cheers and applause] >> and closer to home we reverse american decline by giving back some good old common sense. the american people know we can't borrow and spend and they'll our way back to a growing country. they know that deficits and debt threaten our prosperity and our posterity. they know we can't bail out everything business in america, and they know the freedom to succeed must include the freedom to fail. [applause] >> and you know, this is not just about economics. one bailout after another,