the interesting thing about these is it shows that khalid sheik muhammad and abu zubaydah were pivotal in the war against al qae, that both were uncooperative at first, that the application of enhanced interrogation techniques, specifically waterboarding, especially in the case of khalid shaikh mohammed, convinced him he needed to cooperate. the iets were critical and saved thousands of life and let us defeat all further attacks against the united states. the thing i keep coming back to time and time again, chris, is the fact that we've gone for eight years without another attack. now, how do you explain that? the critics don't have any solution for that. they can criticize our policies, our way of doing business, but the results speak for themselves, and as well as the efforts that we went to, the justice department, to make sure what we were doing was legal, was consistent with our international treaty obligations. >> at one point the vice president showed us the view of majestic mountains from his backyard. i asked about the democrats' running battle with the cia, including nancy pe