kiley, campfire stories, some other place. but he didn't study management. >> it's true. he was an interesting guy. on the one hand he was really an original thinker who came up with lots of neat stuff. on the other hand, he was a great absorber. again, he was less than and sean xts, my father's servant, he said it's a chain of one-liners and it's a wonderful description because my father, he'd recognize a good line and soak it up. and he would incorporated in his speech. he was very moved and i think i was part of this time in the mountains. he saw, you know, the beauty of the wilderness was a large part. it was interesting what you say about the epa and wilderness act, people of his generation were the ones who got it. but it's true. i thought a lot about that as a consequence of this book, how changed the movement is, how someone like me, who was watching it really from cradle, has seen this huge change in the environmental movement. it was so -- the early 60s with such a time for passing the movement because it was for the first time bitterly feeling as if we could ac