kimberle: i think they finally are. really is on our side. americans do not like censorship, the idea that there are certain things that they are told that they are not allowed to read. they especially do not like being told that they are fighting indoctrination. there is indoctrination at foot in saying that these are ideas that are so dangerous, so divisive to the republic, that the autocrats can dictate whether we can engage in them. the whole point of academic freedom, education, is to present material for people to engage in, to develop critical thinking about the world in which they live. yet, the desantis' and the anti-woke cabal had the exact opposite orientation. i have no worries whatsoever about people being exposed to ideas that are critical to intersectionality or critical race theory or structural racism. i know the ideas are strong and powerful enough to survive debate. but when the response to ideas that they don't like, including democracy itself, is to try and suppress these ideas, that is when we have

without teaching these concepts, without talking to people like james baldwin or toni morrison or kimberle for that matter. these things are still at play, we're still pushing to make sure the curriculum is being taught, but these laws require a certain kind of savviness in order to get around some of these restrictions. amy: and your response to governor desantis, who supposedly is announcing for president this week saying that florida is where woke goes to die? >> yeah, this is a real problem for me. i live in massachusetts and i think people are like, what are they doing? i am concerned desantis will become the proverbial simon says, that instead of creating these wild and outrageous policy infrastructures in florida that he will take this to the entire country and that all of the country will look like florida. for me, that is disturbing because it disempowers people. it makes people afraid of things they ought not to be afraid of. i think desantis is doing a lot of fear mongering and stirring up strife in people where i think there is not a lot of division. i think all people want the