kinsey, which let me to hugh hefner, who called me kinsey's pamphleteers, which got me looking into the pornography issue which made me the prim investigator for the u.s. justice department research about violence in playboy, penthouse and hustleer. >> host: should pornography be outlawed? oh. >> guest: oh. yes. wait at one -- it was at one time. it has had a huge effect on child sexual abuse. i won in the netherlands where i said that, and i said that playboy had been producing child porn nothing graffiti and had been conditioning people, based on our research at doj, since the 50s. and playboy sued me for liable and slander in the netherlandss. they wouldn't sue me here. i say, sewell me here -- sue me here, give is a jury trial. and the judge looks at the documentation, the images of the children, the -- in bed with daddy or whoever, and said, no, she's right. you know. they lose. playboy loses, so, to little old me, multibillion dollar lawsuit they lost. >> host: wren and where did you get your ph.d. >> guest: from case western reserve university in cleveland, ohio, 1980, i think, o