technical director from one thousand nine hundred sixty five to two thousand and one and kirk wiebe you a senior analyst in the n.s.a. . from one nine hundred seventy five to two thousand and one and the months following the nine eleven attacks these two men witnessed a complete transformation of the government agency they had worked for decades and were forced to retire to the grave concerns of the illegal and unconstitutional direction of the agency so to discuss their experiences at the n.s.a. as well as what the snowden revelations mean for all of us i'm joined now by building and kirk we thank you so much both of you for coming on though i want to start with you you were one of the creators of the premier an eleven data collection surveillance program called the right which actually did have privacy protections instead of for american citizens why was this program a band and what kind of system replaced it but will it actually wasn't banned in the back part of the analysis part the part that allowed them to deal with massive amounts of data and index it was taken in to manage that