kiron you have experience in this area. first, some broad thoughts but the book and then if you want to share your experiences in the the trump or reagan administrations we'd love to hear that. >> i'd like to thank you all at the bipartisan center for doing this book event and for the work you do across the political divide to bring us together to talk about big policy issues, and tevi's book to me is just a great demonstration of what you stand for and believe in. looking at democrats and republicans in the white house, how they interact in a scholarly way; not making judgments along ideological lines. that being said i would like to ask tevi about -- and comment on the model he sets up for his analysis. he tacks about three big factors that govern his work as he looked at the white house. one he talked about ideological fighting. he was interested also, second, in administrative decisionmaking process, and then finally, he talked about just the broader category of infighting. i'm interested, tevi, if you could take a high

michael: i would like to throw to kiron, too. kiron: i'm of a couple of minds. with the statement that trust is the coin of the realm government't run a without it. having been in washington, i've seen recently that not only it's just trust that americans lack for their own government, but somehow and i think most of the problems we're talking about 16e are k through problems -- we have moved so far transactional direction where almost every engagement, isecially in washington, about what will this do for me, very, very quickly. trust is not a factor when you're dominated by transactions. how we fix that, i don't know. there should be, in a ofocracy, a healthy distrust government always. and so when i read polls show that only 40% of americans trust this or that branch of government or the whole government, there's nothing i our founding that suggests that we should give over our cognitive abilities and to rival hypothesize to elected or unelected government officials. but knowing how to do that responsibly i think is a huge problem now. so on the one side, i di

michael: i would like to throw to kiron, too. kiron: i'm of a couple of minds. with the statement that trust is the coin of the realm government't run a without it. having been in washington, i've seen recently that not only it's just trust that americans lack for their own government, but somehow and i think most of the problems we're talking about 16e are k through problems -- we have moved so far transactional direction where almost every engagement, isecially in washington, about what will this do for me, very, very quickly. trust is not a factor when you're dominated by transactions. how we fix that, i don't know. there should be, in a ofocracy, a healthy distrust government always. and so when i read polls show that only 40% of americans trust this or that branch of government or the whole government, there's nothing i our founding that suggests that we should give over our cognitive abilities and to rival hypothesize to elected or unelected government officials. but knowing how to do that responsibly i think is a huge problem now. so on the one side, i di

i will begin with kiron. your words were profound and pessimistic. i felt sad at the end. my question to you is, what is the greatest source of optimism you see in the world or in the united states today about a revival of good citizenship? >> that is a hard question. your discussion helped me think about the more optimistic side of the citizenship in america. we would not have the debate we are having now about global citizenship if we had civics education. much of what is being debated now is a violation of some of the basic understandings of how nations organize themselves, the history of citizenship. much of it is about trying to make us more moral. part of the argument is we have such a responsibility to others, to the environment, the degradation we have seen, to stopping war, if we do something different with people, we will get better outcomes. first we need to understand principles and how we got here. that ties all of our presentations together. if we return to the kind of education, it does not have to be one we did in the past, but where we do teach the west, w