and medium businesses and julie hanna is an entrepreneur and investor who is a board director for kiva. so good to see both of you guys. you know gene it's interesting you use the word genius because to be a genius it's more than coming up with a good product. right? it we can be smart and good business people but you look at someone like jeff bezos right, i mean he's i would say he is a genius so what separates the two? >> the people that have sort of creative genius as we know, we all have different definitions of what they are. i deal with small business owners. i do not deal with guys like jeff bezos. they are one in a million kind of guys. the genius that run companies successfully and grow them are the ones that know how to buy something for a dollar and sell it for five. and although that doesn't sound like that's some markup of a genius it is a fundamental thing that business people need to know to be able to profit. and i meet too many people say this guy oh, he's smart so he knew what to do he was born with that. some people just are not really capable of being successful ent