senator kerry, senator klobucar and i know senator heller just stepped out. senator blunt. mr. chairman. >> ok. >> since 2000 the company has been in effect. it prohibits companies targeting children 12 years old or younger. it is widely disagreed, do you agree? >> we enforce under copa last week we had one of the largest children gaming companies for civil penalty of $3 million, the largest civil penalty by three times -- >> they were disregarded, the least? >> they were disregarding it in the order -- and the order applies not simply to the internefment >> this would not be available without parents consent, is that correct? >> it shouldn't have been available, that's correct. the violation there was not -- was retaining information without -- >> ok. so you got a lot of software applications available for popular mobile devices such as iphone or android phone. they qualify in my mind as an online service. i'm not sure they qualify in their mind as an online service. could you talk about that? >> well, we held a workshop in june of last year to discuss exactly these issues. i