it was some descendant of that kochubey, that's right, it was a descendant of that kochubey, well, i won't be him somehow to be especially praised, he had, surprisingly enough, quite free views, he reformed it a lot in the russian empire, that is, from this point of view, of course, he was a man of advanced views, ukrainian values, as i have already said, democratization and similar things, at the same time he, of course, considered himself a part of the imperial apparatus. he was the little russian who built the general empire, and he stood higher than many of the great russians, of course, this was also reflected, but as you understand, cooperation is cooperation. i want to ask you now from kochbe back to artists, yes, to return, i want to ask about the inclusion of artists, for example, kramsky, yes, or ripen, inclusion in the process of cultural russian. so, for example , the same kramsky, yes, the russians call him kramsky, yes, he too, this is the same st. petersburg academy of arts, he said that he was the son of a scribe and a cossack mother, yes, but he was part of this move