[laughter] i mean, i know it's a movie s and it's fiction, but it's based on facts, mostly, isn't it? >> yeah. a lot of these facts came there a kohlked very closely, he was an officer, but he was a focal point officer with the cia, and he did a lot of black ops. he knew alan dulles. he would provide the hardware -- they didn't have the right to the hardware -- he would provide the hardware, the guns, the planes, the drops. he used to go to dulles' townhouse every couple of weeks, and, you know, he knew them all. in fact, he never -- he pointed his finger at alan dulles, but the older i got i do believe he is the man who initialed this, who gave it the okay. i think it's dulles, and i think he had the angle -- jim james angleton was a counterintelligence chief who was slightly mad and paranoid, and richard helms was the deputy. i think those three guys, i would say now before i go to my grave, were the real culprits here. >> you're quite convinced in your mind that, essentially, it was the intelligence agencies that organized it? >> well, you talk about this all night, but as fletcher said, there's just no way to have pulled off. i