some of your interrogators believe broke one of the detainees, and you also say that is what kole colin powell, who was the secretary of state at the time, was most concerned about and rumsfeld used to walk out of the room. didn't want to hear about any of this. those must have rung alarm bells for you. >> guest: you're referring to national security council principles meetings that were held regularly, actually in the -- during the course of the interrogation program. wasn't just cia doing this on its own. this was all of the policymakers were briefed regularly on what the techniques were, how they were being implemented, and i would go to some of these meetings bass a back bencher with the cia director, and at the table and i would observe reactions, and i -- it was fascinating. >> host: did it make your nervous sometimes? >> guest: yeah. it was -- certain sense of for boding. i said in the book that waterboarding was laid out in detail on how we were using it at the time. i don't remember a lot of debate or concern or hand-wringing or objections to waterboarding, but i was struck by colin p