. >> host: kolff in a sense deceased so there may be a full other aspect. >> guest: chuck did something very effective. he took all of his presidential papers that were controversial. he would give what he wanted to wheaton college. i send somebody out-years ago to take a look and they said there's really nothing in there. he clearly print out anything in his papers that were troublesome and they are gone or i assume they are done. >> host: do you think he was capable of the hidden forces and all of us and the 30 tricks and the illegality? >> guest: there has been this interesting pattern. nixon is a different person with different people. he responds at a different level in a conversation. with me he's always been a fairly high level. colson brings out his absolute darkest side. haldeman, the two of them just seem to draw something. >> host: haldeman was nixon's chief of staff. what do we learn about haldeman on the state's? >> guest: we learn that he's extremely intelligent. he is the one that seems the most conscious of the fact they are taping from time to time. when it gets dicey h