i see the commitment made by kooigz going back and still having the concerns and issues of the presentation given by kaiser at that time, and using a lot of the terminologies. and not really satisfied with their answers but having now because of the timelines that we have to pace and i want not to jeopardizes the folks going through kaiser. so having said that i think the board will have to have is a commitment with kaiser and kaiser having a commitment with us to have better data going forward for next year. thank you. thank you commissioner limb. commissioner. >> i want to openly thank kaiser i've been working with them over the last 26 years they usually come around and support our members. and during the years when the medicaid rates were pulling out the the business kaiser hung in there and stated in the medicare business. when there have been difficult times they have been more service driven but i agree with my colleagues and former colleagues we have a lot of work to do with kaiser. i'm glad they'll be more forthcoming and this will be well, for our members in the future. we do have

. >> since the beginning the day after the last hearing we were in hearings with kooigz and been in constantommunication as recently as this morning. so they - you know the bottom line really is that therapist in a position to change their rate for 2014 they're not able to do it and i think you understand the reasons for is it. they is legitimate i didn't say a standard methodology that is for all employers and can't make changes for one provider without doing something to everyone and their locked into a arrangements that the work is done and they need to move forward. as i said before what they do for 2014 they're to have to deal with that. to give you a sense of work they've done. this docket here i'm going to give this to mr. rose. this is their rate proposal. this is not a simple take it or leave it. this is a fully documented proposal that looked at our costs in 2012. we are only in to a few months of 2013 and this is the 3r07b8gd costs. that's the basic approach here. there's a lot more in that but i want to make sure you have the information. we have additional copies for every super