joining me now, david korn, author of "russian roulette," maria teresa kumar, malcolm nance, author of of cnbc, and navid jamali, author of "how to catch a russian spy." i'm going in reverse order, naveed. how unusual would it be for ambassador to the eu or any ambassador, to call the president of the united states on an insecure cell phone, and what security implications might there be of him placing such a call to the white house? >> it's completely out of, you know, out of norms, out of standards. but that's not surprising, joy. and i think -- look, you have to assume that if you're using a public, you know, cell phone, that any nation state can probably intercept that call and record it. and there have been cases in the past where the russians specifically have gone on to use those calls and release them to the public in disinformation campaigns. but the bigger thing here i think with that call is the fact that it shows exactly what the heart of this impeachment is going towards, and that is, look, there are only two people that could have negotiated a deal with zelensky. and zelen