kraus is voicing his opinion. he might have too much time on his hands, he might have issues of his own for what is acceptable or what is out there. taking the potshot at her personally about her own kids and children and being a role model. i don't think that jennifer was being a bully in any way. in fact, i didn't think that her rhetoric was scathing. i think her rhetoric was passionate. i think it was absolutely on-mark. and i do believe she was speaking not only for just herself, but i think that she had a collective spirit of what was happening in the country. >> okay, listen. i've heard people talking about this story, and they say, you know what? what he said wasn't that bad, it wasn't like he called her some nasty name. they didn't think it warranted a four-minute response on television. and wendy, i know -- listen, she has the bully pulpit, she's the one on television, she really has the power. you don't think that this interaction -- >> perfect timing. >> -- should be called bullying? >> i think calling