it was revealed they sought the kremlin's assistance. the kremlin had denied that. the kremlin had said we never followed up on that. we never had any contact. now the kremlin was on the other end of that transaction, and we would learn from michael cohen that, in fact, they had responded and so the kremlin has helped trump and his organization cover up contacts with them, so that tells us how much we can rely on the kremlin talking points. >> also when you see every time the president has actually met with vladimir putin it does just raise more questions. you would think for this president in particular he would want other people in the room, other officials given the allegations, given the suspicions. at the very least he would want somebody else there to be able to record for posterity what actually was discussed. that's not been the case. >> that's exactly right. and particularly if he was going to confront putin on their intervention or election. you would want others to be able to say, oh, i watched the president take putin to task but, of course, he didn't wa

she mislead them about connections to the kremlin. she head her connections to the kremlin. as a result of that they are calling it obstruction of justice. it is not clear what the consequences of this are. we reached out to her. she said that she is on vacation and hasn't had a chance to review this case but she wants to defend her honor. >> if she stays in russia -- >> he is probably not going to come here. she was in new york a lot. trump tower meeting. the chances of her coming here again are probably not. it is significant because her name has been out there so much. you know, this is something that has been going on and under investigation for several years. the declaration that he speaks about was filed in 2015. we don't know why all of a sudden this department of justice and the u.s. state's attorneys there decide to file the charges now. did something change? is it mounting pressure and to show effort here in this country is this something that lead to southern district to finally charge her? that could be but we don't know. we don't know if mueller played any kind

want to do with the kremlin?> so he offers -- he believes according to the document right kennedy believes this is fallout of reagan and not apparently fault but the soviet union, in fact, even uses the word ken cannedy is very impressed but of all people right the soviet dig day or tore. so with the election coming up and it is fascinating mark there's a paragraph in here with basically kennedy and soviets agreeing that reagan is working. [laughter] inflation is down unemployment is great everything, so only time you'll ever see them acknowledge that reagan is actually working. and that being the case, is there any vulnerability? yes it is a question of war and peace. the missiles the nuclear freeze movement, so kennedy offer as to the soviets to help them communicate to the american voters and american public their peaceful intentions as he proceeds. >> so kennedy is prepared in essence to be a pr surrogate? to moscow. >> i think that's a fair way to put it. and in order to help them communicate better with the

deripaska and the kremlin. they are intended to influence the kremlin's behavior. and what has changed merits now the relaxation of these sanctions? and the answer is nothing. the russian actions in the last election continueed through the manipulation of social media to med until our democratic affairs -- meddle in our democratic affairs. violence along the line of contact between russia and ukraine continues. and within ukraine continues. nothing has changed in the kremlin behavior. nothing has changed to warrant treasury lifting these sanctions. so i join my colleagues on a a bipartisan -- may i have 30 aa digsal seconds? mr. engel: 30 second. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman allowed 30 seconds. mr. schiff: i join my colleagues on a bipartisan basis and thank my colleague from texas for his support to disapprove of this he relaxation of sanctions on russia and mr. deripaska and urge the rest of the congress to join us. thank you. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new york. mr. engel: i reserve. the gentleman from texas. mr. mccaul:

trump and his relationship with the kremlin. so financial times today is reporting on yet another instance. this one just a few weeks ago, right? late november. where the president once again sent all american officials and any u.s. translator away so he could talk to putin personally with no other americans there to make a record of it and no u.s. officials there to be able to brief anybody else on what happened. when "the washington post" first reported on this pattern by the president, veteran u.s. diplomat strobe talbot was saying these approaches with putin was not only unusual but outrageous. he said this type of meeting, one on one meeting with no u.s. officials present gives putin much more scope to manipulate trump. more scope. in light of this russia scandal and still unfolding legal consequences and now what seems like the real possibility that the president's immediate family may be a point of concern when it comes to this scandal itself and legal consequences when it comes to his eldest son, what do you do as a nati

what does kennedy want to do with the kremlin? . >> according to the document kennedy believes it is the fault of reagan's and not the fault of the soviet union. he even says kennedy is very impressed with and drop off of all people the soviet dictator. so basically we have kennedy in the soviets agreeing that economics is working. the only time you ever see them acknowledge that working. so that being the case is there any vulnerability in 1984? yes it is the questions for them peace. so kennedy offers to the soviets to help them communicate to the american voters their peaceful intentions. mark: so kennedy is prepared to be the puerto rico surrogate. >> that's a fair way to put it. in order to communicate better with the united states. that the following steps be taken. i would encourage people to read the document word for word. but the steps would be first of all, kennedy goes to moscow and help arrange for soviet political military officials to come to the united states to directly talk to the american people. even to set up

how would a president compromised, coerced by the kremlin act any different.nd joining me former fbi special agent with the joint terrorism task force. so talk through how you would be viewing the run up of the campaign and the president's actual time in office from the perspective of someone who specializes in counterintelligence, specifically with respect to russia. >> the whole point of the russian effort was to create a policy change. it is active measures when through the force of politics but inserting people that support your position. donald trump on both parties was the only one to speak so effusively about how great putin was and when you look at the summer period of 2016, you know that russia is hacked into a wide swath of american targets. he goes on stage and said, russia if you got the e-mails. at the same point you are investigating and started to investigate several people tied to his campaign that popped up very odd characters who have all of these connections to russia. >> and they shouldn't be around an american presidential campaign and yet

now, it's not that the kremlin makes a hobby of following american politics. the only point of giving them that data would have been to facilitate their intervention in our campaign. it was a quid pro quo because the other thing we learned from that inadvertent revelation was that part of this was involved with helping russia vis-a-vis ukraine. >> mmm-hmm. >> so all that's -- all that's missing is a bow to tie this whole thing into a knot. and i think we are now seeing the structure of a multinational conspiracy to help donald trump win the election. it's quite profound. >> it's profound when you put it like that. natasha, americans coming home tonight looking at their screen will see a headline that is a bombshell no matter what administration you imagine or what family members you imagine. if you see feds indict foreigner from hostile foreign power who met with guilty campaign chair and family members of the president, if it was obama family members, bush family members, this is a bombshell. people expecting that, you know, to be more about -- thinking about

. >> close to the kremlin. >> close to the kremlin. exactly.s is why this man is on the sanctions list and someone that is of interest to the u.s. intelligence authorities and someone that is significant in that so why if the times report is correct, does manafort want this information to go to him? is it because he's trying to bail out himself because he does owe him millions of dollars or is there more to it and we don't have that reporting yet. >> is it to benefit the campaign or more? we don't know. >> kara skinnel for connecting the dots. we are learning from a source that deputy attorney general rod rosenstein who appointed robert mueller and his office still manages the russia investigation on a daily basis planning to resign. jessica schneider is here with us on this. do we know anything about the timing of this or what this is going to mean for the special counsel's investigation? >> brian a it could mean a lot, but the timing here is not set in stone. rosenstein will likely step down in the next month or so and is planning to leave th

who is close to the kremlin. for russian interference.nd playing around with ownership and moving things to his family, should not matter. this is not a legal proceeding in court. where they're seizing assets and findsing someone criminally liable. this is sanctions and know even further away from that now, emotions on sanctions in congress. we don't need to meet those standards. it shouldn't matter. it is amazing that there were not more republicans willing to say hey, russia are not our friends, they are our enemy and need to make an example out of this. >> interesting to say the least. >> let's talk about the message here ryan, what message does it send to putin or the rest of the world that this is going to be relapse? relaxed. >> the average member of the senate doesn't know a will the about this issue. they are looking to the a administration for guidance. >> and to the handful who actually cared about the issue and look at it deeply, the fact that a number of republicans did break with trump shows that his support, sort of 90% soli

it includes disclosures to determine if the president was secretly working at the direction of the kremlin and that he went to great lengths to hide the details in his private talks with putin. he called the russia investigation a big fat hoax. ledgi pledging to let mueller finish the investigation and believes results should be made public. castro of the intelligence economy and correspondents are also standing by with full coverage. let's begin with our chief white house correspondent. it has to be a first, a u.s. president denying he worked for russia. >> yes. president trump did that, responding to a series of bomb shell reports insisting he never worked on behalf of the kremlin. facing new questions as he is refusing to in order to resoap the government. >> president trump's response to the question as to whether he has been working on behalf of russia can be summed up in one word. yet. >> i never worked for russia. i think it's a disgrace that you even ask that question because it's a whole big fat hoax. it's just a hoax. >> he pushed back on a series of hair raising reports. the new

the kremlin often lobbies personally the foreign minister.d american leaders personally to lift these restrictions on deripaska. the question is what's in it for the u.s. also getting back to konstantin kilimnik, who has these ties to russian intelligence, we broke a story in 2017 about how paul manafort, while he was working for the trump campaign for free, while in debt to deripaska for $19 million was sending e-mails to kilimnik saying is deripaska seeing how good of a job i'm doing on the campaign? are you sending him clips about how good of a job i'm doing? why are you lifting these sanctions now? why are you lifting them at all, you know? it just doesn't really make any sense. and this is what i think most people in the foreign policy national security establishment were scared of when trump came into office, that he would immediately undo these sanctions. in fact, michael flynn, in his very brief tenure as national security adviser, was pushing to lift sanctions against russia unilaterally. >> let's talk about a little bit more about t

the weakening of kremlin control had different consequences. in ukraine a nationalistic political organization. or people's movement emerged in one nine hundred eighty nine due to this my openness. for it they advocated for independence of ukraine from the u.s.s.r. and became an incubator for leaders of ukrainian citizens. in one thousand nine hundred one one of them new book founded svoboda an openly radical nationalist party preaching the good old principles of bondage era. if you just. heard jew crane from the jews in russia ukraine for ukrainians and so on his statements got him fifth place in the simon visa center top ten anti semitic world leader rankings of two thousand and twelve. it also sadly attracted numerous follow ups. dimitri yard which founded another extreme right organization treason or trident in one thousand nine hundred four. in april two thousand and thirteen became an assistant to a member of parliament from the opposition party who died. later that same year he would become the leader of the most radical ukrainian nazi g

we just learned tonight as well that the kremlin, at least so far, claim that between the kremlin, therebe going there to caracas. the other thing we've been learning from the kremlin as well is they're trying to shoot down stories of the russians possibly having sent hundreds of mercenaries to south america, to venezuela, to try to bolster security for nicolas maduro. those were press reports that surfaced over the weekend. the kremlin, pretty angry response to that, saying that comes from the realm of conspiracy, that it's absolutely not true. we do know, wolf, the russians have been using mercenary forces in places like syria and african countries as well. the russians certainly trying to shoot that down. to them, of course, maduro an important ally and very economic ties, russians even having sent strategic nuclear capable bombers to venezuela not too long ago. wolf? >> very tense situation. fred pleitgen in moscow. thank you very much. sources are telling cnn that the pentagon is working on plans to withdraw up to half the 14,000 u.s. troops in afghanistan as peace talks with the ta

is the kremlin trying to keep her quiet? i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. >>> the white house drops a stunning bombshell in the battle over the government shutdown, a battle which polls suggest the president is losing. the president informing house speaker nancy pelosi that he's pulling the plug on her congressional trip overseas while the shutdown is in effect, last-minute move to withdraw the use of u.s. military transport aircraft came as lawmakers had already boarded an air force bus up on capitol hill to take them to joint base andrews. the white house violating the standard secrecy that surrounds a trip to the afghan war zone, a trip the president himself has never made. the president's action comes a day after speaker pelosi's blunt suggestion that he should delay his state of the union address. also breaking, the white house is quietly preparing to deal with the fallout from the special counsel's investigation. sources say that includes a fight to keep much of robert mueller's

she has denied any ties to the kremlin. >> translator: no. i'm certainly flattered by being marked and called as a government attorney. but i have never worked for the government in the first place. >> reporte >> in written testimony in 2017, she claimed she had no relationship with russia's prosecutor general. other than those related to my professional functions of a lawyer. in april 2018, she revised her story calling herself an informant. today she declined to comment on the indictment but vowed to defend her professional honor. she's not in the u.s. she's unlikely to ever see a u.s. courtroom unless she decides to leave russia. still, a very interesting indictment from the southern district of new york. >> very interesting. jim sciutto is joining us as well. we will get to him in a moment. there's news on another mueller case, involving the mysterious foreign company owned by a foreign government. the u.s. supreme court all of a sudden weighing in today. >> that's right. this is -- mystery foreign-owned company, they have been fighting a

the theory of the dossier is that trump and russia, trump and the kremlin, trump personally and the kremline in a i conspiracy, and espionage conspiracy to subvert the election so that trump can get in and do russia's bidding. that was whatus they went to the fisa court with in order to get a warrant on carter page. so the theory behind this ifso u look at the dossier, guys like carter page and paul manafort and cohen, they are sort of the emissaries between the trump side of the conspiracy on the kremlin side but the whole thing is about trump. and it was always about trump tand all that happened in may f 2017 as they went overt in their files on something they had been covertly doing for over a year. >> tucker: were the only one i've heard make that point, really smart point. thank you very much for that. over a year. unbelievable t. former cia officer and a whistle-blower who knows the federal government very well g through hard experience. thanks very much for coming on tonight. so you read that story in "the new york times" on friday, tell me if it ratified or contradicted what you've

trump is lashing out amid sensational new reports on his kremlin connections. >>> the interpreter. house democrats are deciding whether to subpoena the president's translator after mr. trump reportedly has gone to great lengths to keep his talks with vladimir putin secret. what might he have been trying to hide? >>> leaving mueller alone. mr. trump's pick for attorney general says the special counsel should finish his investigation and then the results should be made public. is that giving the president second thoughts about william barr's nomination? >>> and rejected. president trump says no to a proposal by a senate ally, lindsey graham, aimed at re-opening the government. mr. trump refusing to budge even as our poll shows that most americans blame him for the longest shutdown in u.s. history. we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." >>> tonight, president trump is hitting back against fresh allegations that he's a puppet of vladimir putin. declaring that he, quote, never worked for russia. that ex

i think that he is not a kremlin agent.p's statement on nato, i would not exaggerate the meaning of this statement here. >> translator: why? because no one takes the american president seriously? >> now, in that talk show, there certainly were some people who believe that president trump does want to pull the united states out of nato. that, wolf, would be a victory for the russians that i don't think that anybody here would have fathomed being possible only a couple of years ago. certainly before president trump became president of the united states for the russians. that's one of the main topics. and of course, you can also see what that would mean for possibly for other nations, as well. like, for instance, kroukraine, like for the baltic nations. but for the russians, they never thought that something like that was possible. now at least a little more it seems to be within their grasp, wolf. >> it would be a huge, huge victory for moscow. fred pleitgen joining frus from moscow. thank you very much. >>> there's more brea

data to an alleged kremlin operative. who was the information intended for? stand by. we have new information. >>> saying no to mueller. the president's lawyer reportedly says mr. trump won't answer anymore questions in the russia investigation. have the lines of communication between the trump team and the special counsel broken down? >>> done protecting mueller? the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein is expected to leave his job once a new attorney general is confirmed. we will tell you why that's a sign the russia investigation may be nearing an end. >>> we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. you are in "the situation room." >>> this is cnn breaking news. >> we're following breaking news on a dramatic breakdown in talks to end the government shutdown after president trump walked out on democrats who refused to say yes to his border wall. tonight, mr. trump is calling the negotiations a total waste of time as he struggles to keep republicans united and convince americans there's a crisis at the border. also bre

president donald trump were an agent for the kremlin or the f.b.i. reportedly investigated just that shortly after trump moved into the white house when you can imagine trump's reaction to that news. were. you know that. not only did i never work i think it's great that you're even asked that first of all. this. one to our viewers on p.b.s. in the united states and all the around the world welcome we begin the day with less than twenty four hours until the british parliament finally gets its say on teresa mayes plan for leaving the european union barring any seismic shifts in opinion parliament is set to make history tomorrow dealing the government one of the most crushing defeat seen in almost a century and if that were not bad enough once parliament has killed to resign may's brags that plan it will demand a plan b. the prime minister will have until next monday to produce an alternative brecht's that roadmap now it has taken two years of painful negotiations to produce the plan which made today admitted is not perfect but common sense demands the

on the day of his arrest he had been showing them round the kremlin just metres from here.ives in canada where the two brothers were born to british parents. it's very hard for me to understand how anyone would consider paul to be someone who would be a lawbreaker and take those sorts of risks, particularly in countries where they are less maybe flexible about lawbreaking. paul whelan has run this russian social media page for over a decade. he last checked in on the day he was detained. some friends have military connections like him. this post congratulates them on defenders of the fatherland day. but all those we have spoken to say his behaviour was never suspicious. mr whelan's lawyer says he is now in solitary confinement in this former kgb prison. ever since paul whelan was detained and brought here, russian officials have given very few details of what he is actually accused of. the fsb security service his implied only that he was caught red—handed carrying out what it called spying activities. outside russia is increasing speculation that this arrest is part of a f

troll and they've located that i post directly out of the kremlin itself they're really good at that they recommend that you've never been sick i've never been on a but on a tour but if they'd like to write me a letter of recommendation that they think i should be pows thing out of the criminal longside putin i bunch appreciate it ok he commits all the time we have for this many thanks and i guess here in moscow and in athens this is the end of our broadcast segment stay with this with the extended version on our you tube channel see you next time and remember cross talk. but he could see coming that false confessions would be that profile in this book place the front porch looks at any interrogations out there what you'll see is threat promise threat promise threat while i live the process of interrogation is designed to put people in just that frame of mind. make the uncomfortable make them want to get out and don't take no for an answer don't accept or deny. she said if i were. sad statement that i would be home by the next day there's a culture of accountability and police office

kremlin.undreds of thousands of venezuelans took to the streets of caracas. it was a remarkable scene. they are all over venezuela with hundreds of thousands of people marching for freedom. and the country's rightful president, president juan guaido swore himself in. general, glad to have you here. we are in this and we can't back down. we are in, and russia at this moment is trying to escalate it. why is russia dabbling here in our hemisphere? >> because venezuela is a major thorn in our side. they are a socialist regime. they can threaten the united states in our hemisphere with their activities. and their criminal nexus and perhaps a terrorist nexus with iran and hezbollah right there in venezuela. when you think about the care vans coming up from central america from mexico and up to the border. venezuela plays a role in all that. we have a nexus there we should be concerned about. president trump made his statement two days ago saying he supports guaido as the interim president. and other

troll and they've located that i post directly out of the kremlin itself they're really good at that they recommend that you have never been there i've never been a vote on a tour but if they'd like to write me a letter of recommendation that they think i should be prose thing out of the criminal longside putin i bunch appreciate it ok with all the time we have for this many thanks and i guess here in moscow and in athens this is the end of our broadcast segment stay with us for the extended version on our you tube channel see you next time and remember cross talk. with gold make just manufacture consent to the public will. when the ruling classes protect themselves. with the final merry go round listen to the one percent. we can all middle of the room sick. i mean real need for. their bread for a single purpose. they have a superman. they start training very young. eight months of intensive school. rats. and they save lives. when they came back from iraq oh marijuana her was cocaine methamphetamine so anything that's altering trying to get us out. that bad mindset using the chemical

kilimnik pass the data to oleg deripaska, a russian oligarch who was close to the kremlin and who has claimed that mr. manafort owed him money from a failed business venture, the person said. it is unclear whether mr. manafort was acting at the campaign's behest or independently, trying to gain favor with someone to whom he was deeply in debt. today's filing from manafort's lawyers also says he and kilimnik met in madrid and that they may have discussed something billed as a ukraine peace plan on more than one occasion, which prosecutors say manafort lied about as well. tonight "the washington post" reports, quote, jason maloni, a spokesman for manafort, said the madrid meeting took place in january or february of 2017 after the presidential campaign was completed. today's filing from manafort's legal team, mistake included, is in response -- and this gets complicated -- to the mueller team's allegation that manafort violated his cooperation deal by lying to the feds. you may recall manafort was convicted of several felonies last summer, began cooperating with the government shortly t

agent as the kremlin was executing a political attack on our elections. that is collusion." can you just speak to the russian side of this, what they were engaged in at this time was an attack on our democracy. this seems to me to get to john brennan's testimony, chilling testimony, that either wittingly or unwittingly members of the trump campaign may have acted as agents of that russian effort. >> yeah, that's why i would make one change or one fix to the tweet. i don't know that it's collusion. i know it's evidence of collusion. and what we need to find out, nicolle, it's the most important thing, and franks knows this, is what was the intent behind it? but to frank's point as well, really interesting to me that this is the thing he lied about. this is the thing he minimized. right? so whether you're looking at it from a russian perfective or from manafort's perspective, he wasn't minimizing, you know, what the president liked to have for dinner, where he liked to spend weekends or what his golf score was. what he was minimizing are direct contacts wit

was ukrainian but ally would the pro-kremlin politics working for the benefit of kremlin 36s interest. and he has been indicted by robert mueller and immediately fled back to russia. just to give you an idea of where he thought the safest place in the world for him to be was. he was told to share this internal data with two ukrainianole oligarchs. and for context, here's what manafort was saying in july of 2016. >> so to be clear, mr. trump has no financial relationships with any russian oligarchs? >> that's what he said. that's obviously what our position is. >> so paul manafort was running the trump campaign and taking their secret campaign information and giving it to a man assessed to be a russian intelligence asset and telling him to give it to oligarchs allied with the kremlin. just ask yourself why on earth was he doing that? what in the world do ukrainian oligarchs do with information of how trump's message is testing among college-educated women. what does anyone do with it? secondly, if there's anexcuse for him doing this deeply bizarre thing, why on earth would paul manafor

the man under western sanctions is the kremlin's chief propagandist jumps to the defense of russian rap dmitri kissel you off said their children not only of black american hip hop culture but also of the early soviet poets bloody mayakovsky then taking many of us by surprise he started rapping mayakovsky verse so early on the audience passed through and are still in saudi and that is a serious study some artists at least appeared to have friends in high places rory chalons al-jazeera moscow. now cities around the world have begun celebrating the new here thousands that were to watch fireworks last month by town to usher in twenty nineteen and i'm a stray here celebrations kicked off at the sydney harbor bridge and opera house putting on its annual spectacular display. it is time for sports now here peter thank you very much elizabeth boxing and m.m.a. fans waited hours and stayed our poll light in some cases to watch floyd money mayweather is much anticipated if a little bizarre returned to the ring and it was all over before the end of the first of three shared three minute rounds in

troll and they've located that i post directly out of the kremlin itself they're really good at that they recommend that you have never been there i've never been a vote on a tour but if they'd like to write me a letter of recommendation that they think i should be prose thing out of the criminal longside putin i bunch appreciate it ok with all the time we have for the many thanks and i guess here in moscow and in athens this is the end of our broadcast segment stay with this for the extended version on our you tube channel see you next time and remember cross talk. you know world is big part of the new things mark and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that made stream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door. in the bath and shouting past each other it's taught for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. in their prison for a single purpose. they have a superman. they start training very young. they months of intensive

that maybe this is retribution from the kremlin for that.ou know about this? >> i'm not speculating on any of that, particularly with secretary mike pompeo saying they still haven't got counselor access. we don't know why he was picked up by the russians, why he's being charged with espionage. i'm not sure that we're worried about anything other than getting him out of russia. >> understood. to your family, you all think that it is impossible that he was a spy. >> i don't think there is any chance that he was a spy. >> there are some strange elements of your -- or it's questionable, i guess, of your brother's story. he had this social media account, the equivalent in russia of facebook, and he's had it for 13 years. he had various postings on there, pictures of him in russia. the first one we have is where he took a rest and relaxation. here's one. let's talk about this one. here's one where he says, just drinking coffee and watching fake news. now, i'm not taking this personally that he's pictured with cnn, but i just am wondering is this a

troll and they've located that i post directly out of the kremlin itself they're really good at that they recommend that you have never been there i've never been a vote on a tour but if they'd like to write me a letter of recommendation that they think i should be prose thing out of the criminal longside putin i bunch appreciate it ok with all the time we have for the many thanks and i guess here in moscow and in athens this is the end of our broadcast segment stay with this but the extended version on our you tube channel see you next time and remember crosstalk. what politicians do so. he put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president when she. wanted. to go on to be pros this is what the four three in the morning can't be good. i'm interested always in the lawyers in the house. or sit. there for a single purpose. they have a super committee. they start training very young. eight months of intensive school. rats. and they save lives. nobody could see coming that false confessions would be that prevalent in this particular case the fall of