so's kris kristofferson and boxcar willie. i didn't quite understand where they fitted into it. c-span: you mean boxcar willie is equated with president bush? >> guest: yeah. you see, david icke does people's genealogies to work out whether or not they're genetically descended from these malevolent lizards. and what confuses me is how he actually even decided to do boxcar willie's genealogy. i asked him once if he'd done dennis healy's genealogy, who is the founder member of the bilderberg group, and he said no. and i said, "so you haven't done his genealogy, but you've done kris kristofferson's genealogy?" c-span: the lizards were how big, by the way? >> guest: roughly 12 foot. c-span: and when he made these presentations in the public square or forum, people said, "yeah, right. they're from lizards." >> guest: a lot of people agreed with the lizards. some david icke supporters said, "ok, i don't necessarily agree with the lizards, but i respect his right to believe in lizards." and then you had a large anti-racist coalition form kind of all over the world -- in america, in can