kristina kristi kristina parsenevelos is here with us. raidious global stock sent soaring, the stock is now trading at 16.33 and now for the other deal we could see the ftc step in to block intercontinental exchanges $13 billion takeover deal for mortgageth mortgage data company fwlooikt sh >> thanks very much. >>> the war on share buybacks drawing in a major new player to defend that practice only the world's most famous investor warren buffet writing when you were told that all repurchases are harmful to the shareholders or the country or particularly beneficial particularly to ceos you're listening to an economic it literal or devil-tongued dem gag. joining me now is jimp lavin that will and the author of "stock buybacks, the true story. you literally wrote the story, what is the truth? >> the truth is more complicated than what the politicians care to understand. some of the buybacks are actually associated with stock employee compensation plans so when they pay employees in stocks they are trying to avoid dilution the tax legislation that i've seen and all that have does seem to understand that, but then the other side of it is that the stock buybacks are just another way of returning cash to investors, and it's a legitimate way to do it, and it's certainly an alternative to dividends, and it benefits everybody and everybody who happens to own stocks not just the ceos so puff fet is right on. >> what kind of tax advantages though does a company have for doing buybacks that's what some of the pushback would be >> well, i think that clearly when they pay out the dividends then the investors have to pay tax on the dividends, and so if they buy the stocks back and that has a positive impact on their shares, i guess there's really no stock -- there's no tax implications right up front, but that's something that the tax laws maybe need to address rather than politicians needing to address with a tax increase. >> jim, you ever buy a stock because of a stock buyback strategy >> i don't but i really like buybacks when it's executed properly it concentrates the amount of earnings that i as a shareholder retain ed pointed out a lot of times that the share buybacks sop up excess shares given out by share-based compensation i don't really like that i like a company like apple or like citigroup, and this may surprise you, both of those companies, you look at the annual reports year after year their share counts go down probably doesn't surprise you with apple does with citi group probably but i as a stake shareholder is now getting a larger percentage of earnings than i otherwise would have so i like share buybacks. >> would you rather own a company who had a good dividend or a good buyback program? >> buybacks because of what ed was pointing out. >> really? >> if i get the dividends i get taxed right then and there if i get the share buyback, i have an increased share of earnings that may or may not be paid out in the near term. maybe they are going to reinvest in the business and be even greater dividends way out in the future and those taxes are pushed off so the tax advantage that ed points out is very much felt by me in preferring buybacks. >> ed, what would your response be, you know, when you hear an investors, like jim lebenthal say i would rather buy stock in a company with a great buyback program rather than a dividend. >> the buyback strategy of corporations solves the problem of the double taxation of dividends. i mean, the money that you get as an investor of dividends has been tagged at the corporate level before they were able to pay that out it comes out of after-tax corporate profits and then it goes into corporate cash flow. this notion that the buybacks are at the, tense of employee compensation or that it's at the expense of proper capital spending is ridiculous, because the reality is, you know, particularly now in this very tight labor market, workers are certainly getting their share of the pie, and at the same time corporate capital spending has been basically at a record high. >> the other -- if we want to call it the other truth in all of this, since that's how your book was titled, just because a company buy backs its stock doesn't mean that was done at the most advantage time, doesn't mean that it was necessarily quote, unquote cheap when they did it, and certainly doesn't mean that it's going to have some accelerated, you know, route higher as a result of a buyback, does? >> we don't really have -- i haven't seen data where it breaks out the buybacks between companies buying back shares to increase their earnings per share versus companies buying back shares to offset employee stock compensation to avoid dilution if we had, that i think we'd have a better handle on exactly what the buybacks really are all about, and i think we would find out that a majority of them are in fact related to try to increase earnings per share as an alternative to paying out dividends, another way to pay shareholders, and then i think a substantial amount is used for stock employee compensation. >> maybe all buybacks, jim, last word to you are not created equal. maybe that's part of the moral to the story >> that is part of the story and ed is pointing out and what you're alluding to i don't like it when the numbers go up which means they are sterilizing the compensation-based company. >> there's a big list of the stock buyback announcements. there's been massive ones, as you see. chevron and meta certainly leading the charge and that's really when you start to get the ire of politicians to say the least. this is a debate that will be continued. ed, thank you. jim thunder baythal, our thanks to you as well. >>> bank of america's chris hyzy r e ack who gives the forecast fothfed and how you can position your portfolio amid all the uncertainty. we're back on the "closing bell" right after this fastest reliab. you choose advanced security for total peace of mind. and you choose a next generation 10g network that's always improving, getting faster; more reliable; and more intelligent to keep you ready for today and tomorrow. the choice is clear: make your business future ready with the network from the most innovative company. comcast business. powering possibilities™. what if you were a gigantic snack food maker? and you had to wrestle a massively complex supply chain to satisfy cravings from tokyo to toledo? so you partner with ibm consulting to bring together data and workflows so that every driver and merchandiser can serve up jalapeño, sesame, and chocolate-covered goodness with real-time, data-driven precision. let's create supply chains that have an appetite for performance. ibm. let's create. >>> stocks are trying to stage a rebound today with a major averages coming off their worst week of the year our next guest says investors should remain patient to take advantage of further weakness in the coming months. joining me here at post 9, chris hyzy, bake of maryland private bang cio welcome back. >> thanks, scott. >> we're trying to balance today and not doing that great of a job. 33 points higher on the dow. risk/reward still not good >> it's not bad. it's not bad the risk/reward there's still a big fluid environment out there. we characterize it as being human which is there's a lot of distortions trying to reformalize. we all talk about them right now that seems to be at the top of the list is yields, trying to reformalize the back end heading a little higher and putting pressure on risk assets. i'm not going to say this is a typical of a workout after a cyclical bear like we went because nothing is really typical right now. you're not looking at typical capital markets re-pricing something? that we haven't seen in a long time for us the risk/reward is not bad. it's not great. >> how can it not be bad if you point out what rates have been doing? some are suggesting, as i read earl, this marco kolanavik, the fade the bond equity divergence. bonds are telling the right story and equities haven't woken up thus risk/reward for stocks aren't that great? >> i ask the question what haven't equities moved up to yet in the moves last year indicate where earnings deteriorations will be? maybe, and right now we're backing and filling because investors are trying to reposition portfolios for the next cycle, not necessarily the cycle we left so there's a lot of room to go there and the big market cap sectors is what's pushing pressure down. when you look at the old economy areas, the market cap there isn't as large so we can't get out of our own way so it's a backing and filling type of environment, and weakness this year in our opinion should be bought. >> so you're a buyer of weakness, not a seller of strength >> that's correct. >> oh. >> we're a buyer of weakness to prepare for the next long-term bull market, and that should be driven by real earnings versus pe expansion if you get real earnings, that's a much better bull market than pe, pangs. >> how much weakness do you think we might get that will give you a greater opportunity to buy into? >> there's three or four different big scenarios that can play out i'm not even going to talk about soft versus hard landings because the reality is it's somewhere in the middle when you roll it all together you can see another five, 5%, 10% weakness regardless of what the weakness and driver is, we have to see what's beyond the weakness secondly in yields, there's a bull market in yields as well. look at what the front end is giving us, the opportunity to gain cash flow and take that cash flow and reinvest it back into equities. >> people who say, well, the risk/reward is better for stocks and then go right to bonds are attractive where is there more value right now, bonds or stocks >> where is there more value, right now in the very, very short term for the next say three to six months or so, the front end of the curve >> those opportunities have existed for the prior six month, too, have they not >> not necessarily because yield have been going back and forth they have been on a constant move up at the front end the back end is telling us some sort of a recession is coming, so what do you want to do with duration you probably want to begin to extend duration at these levels. use the front end of the curve and get the cash flow and reinvest knows longer duration assets which happen to be equities. >> and give me your best i've got to go best idea in excities what >> old economy, old economy. energy and infrastructure. >> and industrials which have -- >> industrials, part of the industrial sector, and at the heart that have is automation. >> all right great to see you. >> you too, scott. >> good to have you back chris hyzy joining us. >>> up next, we're tracking the biggest movers as we head into the close. >> we have more regularity scrutiny that could kill a major media deal i'll explain who is involved after this short, short break. lomita feed is 101 years old. when covid hit, we had some challenges. i heard about the payroll tax refund that allowed us to keep the people that have been here taking care of us. learn more at getrefunds.com. we planned well for retirement, but i wish we had more cash. you think those two have any idea? that they can sell their life insurance policy for cash? so they're basically sitting on a goldmine? i don't think they have a clue. that's crazy! well, not everyone knows coventry's helped thousands of people sell their policies for cash. even term policies. i can't believe they're just sitting up there! sitting on all this cash. if you own a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more, you can sell all or part of it to coventry. even a term policy. for cash, or a combination of cash and coverage, with no future premiums. someone needs to tell them, that they're sitting on a goldmine, and you have no idea! hey, guys! you're sitting on a goldmine! come on, guys! do you hear that? i don't hear anything anymore. find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. >>> we've got 20 minutes or so before the close, and there you go there's your dow which may just go negative while we're having this conversation with one another. the dow was good for 373 at its peak, but it's basically given all of that back we're watching rates which are at the multi-month highs, nasdaq has been the leader today, but it's given up a lot of its gains, too we'll keep our eyes peeled to the market over the final 20 minutes of regulation time as we say. meantime, let's get to kristinalos for a look at the key stocks to watch. kristina. >> reporter: let's start with shares of digital media firm tegna, plunge right now almost 20% lower after the fed communications communications asked for more info on general standard's bid on the takeover sticking with media, dish network shares are about 7% lower right now hitting the lows of the day after two price cuts came from jpmorgan analysts as well rbc, and that's on lack of wireless momentum. however, the company itself also reported a systems issue on february 23rd last week and the service is still down. i just went and checked. dish.com not working, one of the worst s&p performers today sghot. >> thank you last chance to weigh in on our twitter question we want to know are you in favor of share buybacks? head to @cnbcclosing bell. we'll let you know the results right after this break at morgan stanley, old school hard work meets bold, new thinking, ♪ to help you see untapped possibilities and relentlessly work with you