and it is time now for our sunday group, fox news contributors bill kristol of the weekly standard.ara liasson of national public radio. steven hayes, also from the weekly standard, and juan williams also from national public radio. bill kristol the president understandably bragging about the economy because it has been a tough month for him and look at some of these recent poll numbers. according to a "wall street journal" survey, mr. obama's job approval has dropped -- dropped from 34 in february to 13 now. and look at this. in june, when asked whether the obama health care plan was a good or bad idea the margin was plus-one and now is -6. bill kristol what is going on. >> he's losing the debate on substances, honestly, not just the -- the senator diment is an impressive spokesman for the opposition to obama and mike pence as well but it's not as if they have glitzy ads or have brilliantly catch phrases, a are having a substantive debate on health care and the role of government and on debt and the deficit and i think republicans are winning it and it is -- president obama's appro

so, bill kristol, what's going on? >> he's losing the debate on subsnce, honestly. it's not just -- senator demint is an impressive spokesman. mike pence as well. but it's not as if republicans have glitzy ads out there or have come up with brilliant catchphrases. they're having a big debate on health care, on the role of government, on debt and the deficit, and i think the republicans are winning it. and it's damaging, you know, president obama's approval. it's going down for policy reasons. it's not for personal reasons. >> do you agree, mara? >> i don't agree with that, although npr had a new poll where we showed the president's approval rating at 53. different numbers, but the same spread. >> you were able to get the plug in for npr. >> as i know you would do if you were in my situation. however, what's happening is not justsubstance. in the npr poll, when we tested the president's arguments, health care did better. it slipped. when you asked people from what you've heard about the president's plan, are you for or against it, they're against it. what have they b

who they are specifically--bill kristol, i'm sure, most of your viewers know. he is frequently giving opinions on major networks. he's the publisher of the weekly standard, which is a quite influential conservative magazine. grover norquist is an anti-tax lobbyist, but that's only one piece of his claim to fame because really if you think of this mythical right-wing conspiracy we hear about so much from--from hillary clinton and others, it would probably be taking place every week in grover norquist's conference room, every wednesday morning when he gathers dozens of activists from the right-to-plot strategy. david mcintosh, congressman from indiana, who graduated the university of chicago law school. very smart. came to congress with the so-called republican revolution in 1995 and was a co-leader of that freshman class, who we all remember was quite--raised quite a--quite a ruckus in washington. clint bullock is a constitutional lawyer. he's at the institute for justice here in washington, which he co-founded. he is a leader of the school choice movement in--t

bill kristol of the weekly standard, and juan williams also from national public radio. bill kristol what do you think of attorney general holder's decision to launch the inquiry, and what about this contentious from vice president cheney, that this is really all about policy bix and the president trying to play to his left wing. >> the justice department i think is -- eric holder a weak attorney general and never has been a strong man to stand up to pressure and they justice department is full of left wing ideologues and they wanted to investigate the cia and he talked about doing that in 2008 during the campaign and obama in 2007 talked about how we need to, you know, set the record straight and explore what really happened, and they are ignoring the fact, the career prosecutors and the eastern district of virginia investigated this issue, and the cia report and the ig report, released this week, from 2004, it was available to the career prosecutors and they issued declining memos, why they thought they were not prosecutedable crimes from the career prosecutors in the

to a parting shot that bottle of kristol is calling to me.un to extremes, i feel things too deeply, take things too personally. i argue things too passionately. i get a little too giddy or too down and when stocks rise, they lift my spirits right along with them and then i start seeing the possibility, and the promise that maybe things won't be so bad after all, that maybe all the doubters, all the economic experts are just plain wrong, too beaten down, too filled with fear, too stung from the fall of last fall, or maybe just too knowledgeable, too far inside the circle and steeped in data. i got plenty of facts to bolster my case that this horrible recession is over and the great recovery is begun, higher stock prices, improving earnings, better job numbers, reviving car sales, lower consumer debt, higher consumer savings, stabilizing home prices, but for every fact i cite -- >> yeah! >> -- a bear can have some counterpoint and so nevermind. so we are going to never mind all those facts, how we feel is what counts and we feel better! so have

well, bill kristol, what do you think of attorney general holder's decision to launch this inquiry and what about the contenti from vice president cheney that this is all about politics, the president trying to play to his left wing? >> i think eric holder is a weak attorney general. the justice department wanted to investigate the cia. holder talked about doing that in 2008 during the campaign. obama in 2007 talked about how we need to set the record straight and explore what really happened. and ignoring the fact that career prosecutors in the eastern district of virginia investigated this issue. the i.g. report was available. they issued formal declination memos explaining why they were not prosecutable crimes. these are from career prosecutors from the justice department, not bush political appointees. eric holder established the terrible precedent that a new attorney general comes in and prosecutes people who were serving their country. >> juan? >> the thing to remember here is that vice president cheney in the interview with you, chris, said the lawyers at the justice department

kristol had turned on me, but maybe that's the reason. c-span: when was the last time you saw him or talk to him? >> guest: i see him at receptions and things and i say hello. but we don't really come first. c-span: i mentioned converting to catholicism. a source was somewhat responsible for you converting to catholicism? >> guest: well, the person who first -- who first set me down that road, although i believe it was the holy spirit who really guided me was jeff bell, who is a supply side. he ran for this end to the kucinich weiss in new jersey, strong -- he was an aide to ronald reagan and jack kemp, close friend of mine as well as the source, and he started to proselytize me could solaces on. it was a long row after i almost died of spinal meningitis in 1982. c-span: i was actually referring to the priest at st. matthew's cathedral. >> guest: well, the priest -- i thought -- yes. he was really more of a source of a republican politician before he became a priest. my wife and i, before we became catholics we moved downtown and we start

but many jewish americans are more aggressive and unrelenting , and i have heard bill kristol. understand why he turned on me, but maybe that is the reason. i see him at receptions and things and say hello, but we do not really converse. >> i mentioned converting to catholicism. a source was somewhat responsible for that? >> well, i believe it was the holy spirit that guided me. but jeff bell, a supply-side air in new jersey, strong relation reagan and camp and a friend of mine -- heat started to proselytized to catholicism, a long road after i almost died of spinal meningitis. for and the priest -- oh, yes. that was monsignor peter. he was a republican politician before becoming a priest, and my wife and i moved downtown and started walking to st. patrick's church. and someone saw that our old friend was a priest there, he had become of pasteur, and he was certainly a major factor. he had a late vocation in life. >> what year did to convert? >> i converted in 1960 -- it was 11 years ago -- 1996. >> what year did evans die? >> i think he died about -- i am bad at remembering th

greta: kristol, thank you very much. -- crystal, thank you very much. are the democratic senators going to invoke the nuclear option and pushed through health care reform? this is a way that they can do this. it makes them possible to push bills with a simple majority. is this what will happen? joining us is john kyl. do you expect that the democrats will invoke this option? >> yes, of course we object. i don't know whether they will or not. i kind of doubt it. the reason that they're having trouble even among the democratic majority, they have 60 and republicans only have 40. the reason they are having difficulties is the american people are speaking out and they understand the nature of the bills that have been given. the bill from the health education and labor committee, they don't like what they see. they have registered those protests in town hall meetings and in public opinion surveys. this is causing great consternation with the obama administration and the democratic leadership. greta: in doing your accounting, the you have any reason to believ

let's bring in our panel now, bill kristol, editor of the weekly standard, kiersten powers, columnistith the new york post and syndicated columnist charles krauthammer. bill, your thoughts on his life and legacy. >> my condolences to his family, obviously. i wasn't a big fan of his politics and i didn't really admire him, so maybe i won't say very much. in terms of his politics, though just to get away from the personal stuff, he was a liberal. he didn't change in the 47 years he was in the united states senate and some people might call that admirable consistency. i regard that as being blind to reality and refusing to learn from the facts. he continued to advocate policies that had long proven not to work, and leaving aside his personal life once again, the only thing i would not forgive him for was the speech denouncing robert bork totally unfairly, opposing robert bork when he was nominated to the supreme court with the famous speech where he made it seem as if bob bork was in favor of segregating blacks and discriminating against people was really not a low point in american poli

bill kristol sent out a memo that said you cannot let the democrats pass health care or we will be aminority. the republicans got their filibuster. this time, there is no 45 centers, and many of you. there is no filibuster option. there is no option here but to terrify people. [applause] let me say a word or two about health care and about the climate change legislation. i will then come back to what i think we all ought to be doing. there are three things that make health care really hard. first of all, its complexity. it is 16% of the county. anything that complex can be easily and honestly misunderstood and dishonestly manipulated. secondly, a lot of the stuff that will make the most difference of the long run is hard to cost out produce all the congressional budget office given a body blow to what the house is going to do. why is that? because the only thing they can count today are tax increases in medicare and medicaid cuts. those are tangible and you can count. we know how much money electronic medical records will say. -- save. lots more than that in unnecessary procedures bu

. >> your former chief of staff, bill kristol, shared something about a trip to latin america with you1990, air force 2, you're the vice president, he is a veteran senator. how did he handle the bipartisan nation of that foreign policy trip? >> senator kennedy, he called me at that time, and as you recall, because you've covered this, you remember the bombing of ronny moffett and la tellier, being from chile. senator kennedy was very interested in having a full investigation of who did that. his suspicions were the government. well, in this particular case, i was flying down to see the government transfer power to president-elect linday. ted kennedy called me up and said, i want to go. i said, you can go, but you have to promise me one thing. he said, what's that. i said, you cannot criticize our administration when you're in chile. i will set up the meetings for you, you can have your own meetings, but you can't criticize us down there. and he told me, and it's very important and very telling about the kennedy family and ted kennedy in particular, he said this -- my brother always sai

heas in iraq this summer and just returned from afghanistan where he w helping with general stanley kristol's strategyeview. i'm pleased have each of these knowledgeable pele about iraq andfghanistan on this program. tell me where you see iraq toda and what are the -- how do y assess th pitfalls that mighstill be there, and the opportunitie and the possibilitiesven of celerated withdrawal. >> well, i think what's very clear ishat iraq's problems a as genal odierono has said. this he are predominantly potical to you t there an undercurrent, under -- ongoing vience tt really has not stopped. and i thk that ishat has made cerinly american policymakers nervous. but alsoasade iraqis nervous. because what they don't feel sure of is whether tha could aelerate. general odierno has talked a lot about the frictioin the north between the kurds and the arabs but there is so just day-to-day olence going on. certainly it is gng on in mosul where some of it is kurd-arab nsion but there is also still cres against christns, murders,and just inasunni assassinations. ambushes. just there's consistently attacks

bill kristol of "the weekly standard," tad devine, nicolle wallace, communications director in the bush white house, and juan williams of national public radio. let's take advantage of our two insiders. nicolle, forget policy, forget your political leanings, as somee who has rolled out initiatives, just as a professional in this area, what has the obama white house done wrong? how have they lost control of this narrative? >> they have made all the same mistakes that we made when we rolled out and fought for social security reform. they left all the details to the congress. they've got very vocal opponents who when they try to calmly and in a very detailed manner explain that they won't necessarily be impacted, they don't have the credibility needed to quiet their opposition. and, you know, now their credibility is being questioned. so i think they've made a lot -- they claim that they are students of the mistakes of the bush white house, but they really failed to learn the lessons of the failed effort to reform social security. >> tad, anything to add to that? >> yes. i think our side h

. >> moyers: back in 1993, the republican propagandist, william kristol, urged his party to block any health care proposal in order to prevent the democrats from being seen as the "generous protector of the middle class." but today, you've got some democrats who are going along with the industry. max baucus, the senator from montana, for example, the most important figure right now in this health care legislation that's being written in the senate. he's resisted, including a public insurance option in the reform bill, right? >> that's right. >> moyers: why is the industry so powerful on both sides of the aisle? >> well, money and relationships, ideology. the relationships. an insurance company can hire, and does hire, many different lobbying firms. and they hire firms that are predominantly republican and predominantly democrat. and they do this because they know they need to reach influential members of congress like max baucus. so there are people who used to work for max baucus who are in lobbying firms or on the staff of companies like cigna or the association itself. >> moyers: y

bill kristol, a republican banker, supposedly, said the we have to kill it. -- republicans thinker. democrats will accuse republicans of using this as a political weapon. i am sure the republicans will say, no, we're just trying to make sure the health care reform legislation in specifics is valuable and worthwhile. in terms of man to plaza, look, issues from san francisco, a california liberal. brigid in terms of nancy pelosi. the cannot replace ted kennedy, are thor the counterpart for newt gingrich. each party chooses a villain. the try to inspire people by saying that person is the personification of that political party. host: our guest will be here with us for just under one hour. if you want to call in, called this. we have lots more from our guests, but we wanted to hear from the speaker herself. she held a news conference on friday afternoon. here is a minute from that. what she saw as the accomplishments of the session so far. >> to we are this week in committee about to move closer to health care reform than ever in history. when we have our third committee report on the

i've seen you go out with bill kristol and my friends have written the most historical account of theeoconservative agenda that takes them to iraq. >> host: any response? >> guest: well, i go at this with bill kristol and put him and charles krepp tener the, what is interesting to me is these are various aspects of my life and one level during history and one level during journalism for fox news and npr and fox it is mostly debate so it shifts hell i am seen in the world and it's interesting at times, you know, people will see me as the liberal or conservative, but it's so hard and especially in this kind of mitch media that we have today to be seen as simply trying to give people information because you so often get involved in these highly publicized debates but it makes for good tv. >> host: at reporter address is booktv@c-span2. our guest this sunday is juan williams. i want to talk about bill cosby. these are his words. i'm talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there and an orange suit. where were they when he was to? where were you when he was 12? where w

bill kristol, a republican banker, supposedly, said the we have to kill it. -- republicans thinker.emocrats will accuse republicans of using this as a political weapon. i am sure the republicans will say, no, we're just trying to make sure the health care reform legislation in specifics is valuable and worthwhile. in terms of man to plaza, look, issues from san francisco, a california liberal. brigid in terms of nancy pelosi. the cannot replace ted kennedy, are thor the counterpart for newt gingrich. each party chooses a villain. the try to inspire people by saying that person is the personification of that political party. host: our guest will be here with us for just under one hour. if you want to call in, called this. we have lots more from our guests, but we wanted to hear from the speaker herself. she held a news conference on friday afternoon. here is a minute from that. what she saw as the accomplishments of the session so far. >> to we are this week in committee about to move closer to health care reform than ever in history. when we have our third committee report on the bi

this is the way we alluded to before, the clinton bill was stopped by a complete wall, built by bill kristol say no on this. and with this imagery, and it drives me crazy when the people deploy imagery from the third reicht. it seems you can debate the merits on this all you want and we should but the overheated avocations of world war ii are just wrong. >> and jonathan capehart, if you're trying to fight this thing, if you're against it, the biggest opponent to this plan is the economy and it is the way the white house is, you know, dealing with this situation, maybe too many at once. i think it just genuinely makes people afraid and they're wondering, gosh, if i don't have a job, am i going to like this plan? what's in this plan? i don't think the rhetoric and the vitriol is necessary if you're trying to bring it down. >> correct. you're absolutely right, mika. and i think someone out in one of these town hall forums should ask the president today in montana, mr. president, you often say that doing health care reform is essential to economic recovery. make him explain that because that's b

heard this from both kim and mike and tony -- is that, with sufficient forces, whenever general the kristol thinks that means, -- what everett general -- whatever the general mc chrystal thinks that means, this situation has deteriorated so far that they really only two questions now. can it be stabilized with any amount of resources or is it just too little too late? we are not. the answer to that question in any serious way for a least 12 months. >> now we will go to you, the audience, for questions. we have 20 minutes. please, i need you to keep your questions short. i also needed to identify yourselves. just wait for the microphones, please. >> thank you. given the rather grim picture you have painted, if we make it even a little worse, how do you view the ability of the united states to sustain the effort given the overall environment in which we are living with the federal budget deficit approaching $1 trillion and the projections that are being made? given what it is going to take to sustain a counterinsurgency each strategy for the long haul, which is going to be years even in a con

you have general the kristol over there and more troops -- general mccrystal over there. you have the pakistani army actually fighting in an aggressive way. that is that we took out the top taliban leaders in pakistan who was also one of bin laden's key allies. the goal is to have a pincher, where we are squeezing them on both sides, eliminating their allies, making it more difficult for them to communicate, making it difficult for them to operate safe havens. what we hope to do over time is to flush them out. we will keep on putting pressure on them. i know it is at great cost. i have to sign letters to family members who have fallen, and be a lot more are falling in afghanistan and iraq. -- and a lot more are falling in afghanistan. it will take some time. >> susan listens in new york city. go ahead for the president. >> banking very much mr. president for talking to us about this important issue. -- thank you very much. we all want reform. i guess it is a matter of what the best solution is. a lot of us feel the federal government is just not equipped to be getting inv