the state did not call roy kronk in this case, because roy kronk's testimony about what he did on december 11th, 2008 is embellished. roy likes to spin a good yard. but what roy said he did on december 11th is impossible. we didn't put roy kronk on to tell you a story that the evidence in the case just isn't true. i would also submit to you that roy's claim that he just happened upon that scene for the second time is equally uncredible. that doesn't mean that he staged the scene, that he stole all that stuff. what it means is that roy likes to spin a good yarn. i submit to you based on the evidence what occurred in this case is that roy found the skull as he said he did back in august. tried to report it three times and he got blown off and said the heck with it. i'm over this. maybe it really wasn't. but then he starts communicating with his son. he starts telling his son. hey, i know where the skull is. and his son is impressed. he's trying to get this relationship with his son. he thinks wouldn't it be great to impress my son. so he goes back to the scene and it's still there. roy becom

michelle tells kronk her boyfriend where the body is. >> the claim that kronk conspired with police tot is some charge to make. >> it is the charge. >> what you are saying is law enforcement is listening in on an attorney client conversation which is privileged and giving the information to a woman who works in the jail. >> to give to her boyfriends. >> the claim that kronk wasn't doing the job on the day the remains were found. >> you are in the office you see it by a meter reader. a gentlemen walking along with houses reading meters. >> why would he be here? >> will padilla have to put his money where his mouth is? >> joining me now leonard padilla. hello leonard? >> how are you doing? >> i am fine. did you defame roy kronk. >> anti defamation action. let me explain something to you from the top. he is now going to truly be a hero. roy cronk is going to be a hero in the case. by following the lawsuit against me he has given me the right to take under oath under penalty of perjury depositions of his girlfriend the individuals involved in the case, casey anthony, baes, cindy, george le

roy kronk, it's on tape. nobody wanted to listen to him, so he gave up. four months later, he came back, reported it it's still there. you can looked at the photographs of that body and without any assistance from expert testimony tell that body has been there for a very, very long time. it didn't just get set there. that tape didn't just get put on that skull. you know how you know that because the tape is decomposed just like everything else is. you've seen photographs of the tape. you've got it in evidence. that tape has been out there for a very long time. you heard testimony from the -- ms. lowe, the fiber analyst, who told you that that tape didn't even have any cotton in it. we know it's the same tape as the tape in the garbage, but that tape had been out there for so long, it didn't even have cotton in it anymore. she couldn't even tell scientifically they were the same. everyone can see they are the same. that's how long it had been there. the tape did not just get out there a few days before. all the evidence says that that's impossible. >> look

for that we go to kurt kronke of the mta system. >> we have on the buses the 24 bus operated with a delight. the 15 bus diverting at broadway. look for the 64 bus to divert at charles and conway street. light rail and metro subway both on schedule. i'm kurt kronke. now back to tony pann good morning. >> we're off to a quiet start. it is warm but we do not expect any rain for the morning commute. 73 in parkville. 71 in jarrettsville. the dew points are running around 70 degrees. with dew points in the upper 60's, it feels pretty tropical this morning. the atmosphere will use some of the moisture to create some thunderstorms this afternoon. the skies are clear. we are starting to see a hint of something to develop in central pennsylvania. there is a cold front that is moving towards us. we will see some scattered thunderstorms develop as it bumps into this humid air mass. this front will get stalled on the coast. we'll have a chance for rain in the forecast even for friday. we have about a 40% chance you'll see a thunderstorm in your

in opening statement defense counsel told you that person was roy kronk. they both got this rare kind of du tape. roy kronk who has no connection to the anthony family other than reading their meter once. he had never been in their garage and has no idea what kind of duct tape they have. so which is it? who put the duct tape there? counsel has argued to you that the crime scene was staged. could i have state's exhibit 82 published for the jury, please. this is a photograph of the scene out there on suburban drive as it was found on december 11 of 2008 before anything was disturbed. this is in fits pristine form. -- this is in its pristine form. the only thing that is staged in this scene is mother nature herself. this scene is covered in leaf litter. there is a 2 to 3-inch pile of leaf litter. there are vines literally growing over everything in this scene. there are vines you will see in photographs growing through everything in this scene. this scene cities staged by mother nature and no one else. this skull has not been moved for 6 months. rdon me, mayb

>> i don't know what to make of roy kronk. i know the defense pushed the issue with him.i just -- there wasn't much time spent on him for us to generate a strong feeling towards roy kronk. i do think he did -- he stated that he did remove the remains at a time. he picked a bag up at one point a skull came out. >> greta: you don't think he moved it from the house? >> no. there's nothing that puts him in that house. there's nothing that shows consistently he was involved in the anthony family. that was not something that i really took into consideration. >> greta: straight ahead, the foreman does not hold back when talking about george anthony. and his many suspicions about him. stick around. >> the prosecution is hugely disappointed. does prosecutor jeff ashton have any regrets? what is the deal with the prosecutor's smirking situation? situation? jeff ashton is here. naturals from delicious, real ingredients with no artificial flavors or preservatives. naturals from purina cat chow. share a better life. >> greta: what do you say to those who criticized this jury's verdict

>> i don't know what to make of roy kronk. i know the defense pushed the issue with him.i just -- there wasn't much time spent on him for us to generate a strong feeling towards roy kronk. i do think he did -- he stated that he did remove the remains at a time. he picked a bag up at one point a skull came out. >> greta: you don't think he moved it from the house? >> no. there's nothing that puts him in that house. there's nothing that shows consistently he was involved in the anthony family. that was not something that i really took into consideration. >> greta: straight ahead, the foreman does not hold back when talking about george anthony. and his many suspicions about him. stick around. >> the prosecution is hugely disappointed. does prosecutor jeff ashton have any regrets? what is the deal with the prosecutor's smirking situation? jeff ashton is here. [ male announcer ] this...is the network -- a network of possibilities. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more amecans, man

and that was when the guy who found the remains of caylee anthony roy kronk called the police back inthe police didn't respond. when finally an officer came out he walked down to the marshy area where kronk said the body was and looked across the body and refused to go in there and turned around and slipped in the mud and berated kronk for 30 minutes and left. never went in there. that officer was fired. rightfully so. the rest of the officers have done an admirable job. they worked around the clock, some of them, dozens of officers trying to piece the case together. had the initial officer gone in there and found the body it would have been five months earlier. who knows what dna and finger fingerprints would have been found. >> they fired the guy, booted the case and the rest of the officers in your estimation did their job professionally. what about geraldo made a big deal out of this as we were contemplating the case in its testimony phase there were no miranda warnings given to casey anthony and even if she got convicted this would be a big deal. >> completely disagree. i complet

for that we go to kurt kronke of the mta system. >> we're moving along nicely. we have a delight -- a diversion on the 361 and one bus is diverting at charles and conway street. light rail and metro subway both on schedule. penn, camden, and brunswick lines operating on time. now back to tony pann. good morning. >> we have some rain to talk about today. first let's say good morning to ava marie. she's done at the maryland food bank. good morning. >> this warehouse is a gigantic and it is -- they're hoping to get more food as they continue to get food from local farmers. the farm to food program. we're talking about the new program. john is the coo of the maryland food bank. >> this is a program we have been working on. we work with area farmers, most a long the eastern shore. 27 farmers are bringing produce to the food bank. we rebox it and sending out to all the locations. >> what does that mean to the food that doesn't goo market where does that normally go? >> buyers that go to commercial farms that say they want cucumbers an exact size or potatoes a certain

for that we go to kurt kronke of the mta system. happy friday. >> thank you. we're looking good on the rales right now. no delays on penn, camden, and brunswick lines so far. metro subway ontetr schedule. eight bus diversion at charles and conway street because of construction. now back to tony pann. good morning. >> we had some big thunderstorms last night. up to 3 inches of rain in parts of baltimore and harford counties. it did do some damage. we have some light rain showers in southern pennsylvania. early, we will be just fine. we have a flood watch in effect because i expect thunderstorms to redevelop later this afternoon. most of the state is under a flood advisory or flood watch. the ground is saturated. nowhere for the water to go. 71 at the airport and that randallstown. you will feel the humidity when you step outside. we have a front across central maryland. that was the focus of the thunderstorms last night. this area of low pressure is traveling over towards us. there will increase the chance for rain as we head towards the morning and the afterno

kronk impeached himself. he admitted to you on december 11th when he happens to be urinating for the second time four months later he finds her remains. he tells the police in two different statements "i lifted the bag up about 4' off the ground and a skull dropped out." well, that's not consistent with what the police found. they went back to him on the 17th and he changed his story. you heard him say it. two different statements. what's glaring and what's missing here is on the 11th when they asked, so, do you have anything else important to add he doesn't say "yes, i called you four times four months ago." he doesn't say anything. he keeps that quiet. it is not until they go back and he knows they have the 9-1-1 call. they havehe previous crime line tips. my story's different. i better play ball. this didn't drop out or roll out of the bag. it was there. changing his complete story. how can you trust it. how can you trust anything at that scene if it's staged. an of it. we know her skull wasot as they foun

this roy kronk, should he be looked into? should the father be questioned?d the mother's statements be brought up? should they pursue this further or will they let it drop? >> listen, i'm a firm believer when it is over it is over. the defense won this case. anything the prosecution does after this is really going to look like sour grapes. they can go after the mother for the confusing testimony as to whether she was at work or not. her mother was the prosecution's star witness that is not going anywhere. this woman should get credit time served tomorrow. everybody should go on with their lives. [ talking over each other ] >> the only one who knows what happened is her mother and we are never going to know that story. the prosecution is so invested in her being the person they are never going to8:[ñ pursue anybody else. >> sean: what i didn't like about roy kronk he finds the body and telling his son -- >> you don't find amazing people in murder trials. he didn't do it, the anthony family is saying this was an accident. >> sean: if you are sitting on a jury

roy kronk admitted to move the remains a bit with his peter stick.here was reasonable doubt as to whether this duct tape was placed over her nose and mouth and whether or not, in fact, this was the instrument of death. >> i want to show our viewers another photo released by the court again. this was a laundry bag taken from the scene in which is where the body was found, in this bag. jeff toobin, part of the prosecution case was there were similar bags in the anthony family garage, therefore, you can connect the dots. the jury did not want to do that. they decided circumstantial perhaps but not enough to convince but to convict. >> that bag was nothing so extraordinary and unique. there are a lot of plastic bags that look like that in the world, a lot of people use them. i think sometimes you just have a prosecution that may have tried too hard. there was some so-called scientific evidence in this case like a supposed scientific proof of the smell of death in the car that was frankly not very believable and not probative of much of anything. sometime

kronk's attorneys filed. he has a leg to stand on.ars accused him of killing caylee, been in cahoots with the family of covering up the murder, and then being a plant for the police department. they told him where the body was so he would get the reward money. if he can prove that one of those is false or two of those is false, then he has to prove damages. the problem will be what are the damages? >> please, mr. creepo is going to make money out of this? i don't think so. >> gregg: careful. i don't want you to get sued for defamation. zanny the nanny defamation lawsuit. i think this is the real and serious legitimate one. casey anthony falsely claimed that she kidnapped her daughter and it turned out to be a complete and utter lie by casey anthony. if she gets a judgment against casey anthony, is it going to be just like the o. j. simpson case, fred goldman hounded o. j. simpson for years with a multi-million-dollar judgment. >> i think so. absolutely. you said yourself, casey anthony doesn't have anything right now. even if she prof

the man who discovered the remains in the woods, the roy kronk was somehow a morally bankrupt individual who was trying to profit off of the growing reward money for the disappearance of caylee anthony, and then we heard as the defense presented the case over these month-long days, 33 days, we heard that jose baez did not have that exact information, and he was unable to elicit testimony on the stand to present his case, but again, it was not the defense's case to prove, but it was the prosecution's case to prove, and it appears that the jury listened to this, and their conclusion is that the prosecution did not prove that she was guilty of murder. >> all right. kerry, as you pointed out that the jurors in the casey anthony trial will be speaking here, and just as compelling certainly as the verdict is how they came to this decision. that will be the next step, and savannah is here with me, and so thursday -- go ahead, kerry. sorry? >> i want to throw one thing out. when i was listening to the closing in the courtroom on sunday i noticed juror five who is a woman with gray hair in her 60

but remember, even though roy kronk later comes up and says he put a stick through the skull and moved it around, anybody that is six months in the environment, in storms, in marsh, and animals pulling the body apart, you can't rely on the position of the body, which is what the medical examiner relied upon to call it a homicide. that body has been moved around in all different ways, and the position of the body when it was found six months ago is not necessarily related to the position it was when it was first placed there. greg: joey, i hear people talking about this case who really didn't care much about it in the days that it was actually on trial, but you know, people who can't believe that she was exonerated by this jury. i mean i guess that is the system, we have to accept the jury and accept the verdict and respect the jury. >> you know what is interesting, jon, the more i do this. the more confused i become. you never know what a jury is actually going to do. they focus on issues. in this case incidentally when you talk about not establishing the cause of death, well you know

well for kronk on the fourteenth hole rickie fowler and thomas bjorn like two shots behind johnson with miguel on hold humanise alongside lucas glover tied for fear of rory mcilroy meanwhile dropped from level paulton for rove off to a mixed round of seventy four. people from home here and here this week you know i think they were expecting you to be speaking really at this stage and think that. you know if you supported me which is fantastic but not just a bit different but every put it all the way through the crowd you know sort of i don't know maybe the benefit of the fire a little bit more with me just a guy that likes a painter to just enjoy himself and you know the kind of been fantastic cycling and went out two thirds of the way through this he has to the front of a belgian here live on the death celebrating his maiden stage where it all sounds a that picture after stage fourteen also solve a omega pharma lot so rider that king of the mountains classification bonded debt just two points ahead of spain some sun choose who trailed by its when he won seconds to come in second and wa

kronk. another question for you, why would an uninvolved citizen after calling police about finding a skull in the situation that is just hundreds of feet around the corner and around the row from the anthony evidence, nation wide look out. you all remember that? why in the world would the man it is silent for four months? i do not know the answer to that. i do in the know how he took the meter reader stick and put it into the right eye socket of the skull and lifted it, and the claim is it was found embedded in the leaves and muck. or was there, in fact, some re-positioning, something to make the case? the doctor said there was no tape on the nose. another doctor said there was and tape in the area of the mouth, the area of the mouth, and he concluded that the manner of death was a him side on totally circumstantial evidence because she said no child should have tape on her face. well, remember all the d.n.a., all the no, no, no, no, no, no, and dr. warren who did the super imaging stuff, s

on august 11th, roy kronk's original statement was the area was underwater somewhat. certainly, two weeks after it was completely flooded. you never know. >> greta: casey anthony didn't testify. i guess it is not a huge surprise. were you ready for her testimony? did you expect she might? >> we did. after the opening statement, we expected her to, as the trial wore on we became more and more convinced she wouldn't. linda burdick was prepared to cross examiner her effectively. she never got the chance. >> greta: in terms of the opening statement of jose baez. he made the allegation george anthony, which he has denied, about abuse, sexual abuse as well as lee the brother. was there ever any evidence, not impeachment evidence, but substantive evidence which you may have disagreed with, to support that? >> the only evidence on that issue in any way was some statements that casey had made to boyfriends about lee perhaps touching her inappropriately. that was it. there was nothing to suggest george had done anything to her. >> greta: i don't know whether it happened or didn

ted rep -- represents roy kronk's son. the suicide note, what relevance?n the defense opened the door yesterday by pointing out -- questioning george that things he said and did were because he felt guilty about the way he treated his daughter and the cover-up of the accidental death of his granddaughter that opened the door to the prosecution leading him down the primrose path of the things i did were because i thought my granddaughter was missing. and then i was devastated she was dead. and devastated that i thought my daughter had something to do with it. >> greta: the most bizarre thing bernie, here the defense theory is that because of an accident that he is somehow guilty for covering up an accident. there's nothing wrong with an accident. an accident isn't a crime. >> accident you pick up the phone and say oh my god my granddaughter just slipped in the pool, she is not breathing. i feel bad about a lot, none of the things i've done to ted i feel bad about. you wouldn't go into a suicidal melancholy story if i was an accident. you just say it was an

kronk saw something white, which turned out to be a skull in december. but he saw something white then. i kind of wonder. you know, without that argument, you listen to this alternate juror, half what i hear him saying came from mr. baez's opening or closing. i never saw anything in evidence. anything in evidence about a horrific accident. did i miss something? >> greta: no. because the defense doesn't have to prove anything, what the defense has to do is poke holes in. the prosecution's own expert said they could not deny it was an accident. i think shifting the burden. they were poking the holes. the prosecution necessarily then couldn't meet its burden of proof. >> i agree with poking the holes. this juror said a couple of things many on your interview last night, i read the transcript. when it came down to mr. baez showing how the anthony family got rid of their pets, he made it clear, a conclusion in quotes, i think this is how they got rid of caylee's body. so, he's not only speculating. he thinks, absent of any evidence, except for how somebody bu

roy kronk talking about putting his meter stick in her baby's skull, nothing except on cue with the bizarreony of her brother crying about not knowing she was pregnant. >> you don't know what to believe when watching her reactions. today in the courtroom, a courtroom observer stood up and flipped the bird at the judge and was arrested and then in jail for six days. >> you recognize the individual contained therein on that photograph, sir? >> yes. >> who is it? >> this is me. >> what is that symbol that you are projecting with your fingers? >> using my middle finger. and i'm sorry. >> what does that mean, sir? >> the f-word to someone. >> who were you extending the finger to sir? >> mr. ashton. >> did you realize that the taxpayers of the state of florida has expended a great deal of money in putting on this trial. and that your actions may have jeopardized or could have jeopardized all of the work that the attorneys have done in this particular case? >> yes, sir. >> i will sentence you to six days in orange county jail. impose a fine of $400. >> that's what you call a punishment and a deter

. >> the defense suggests could kronk have moved or tampered with caylee's remains?s the focus back to the hard facts. >> you have never had any access to casey anthony's pontiac sun fire, i take it? >> no, ma'am. >> you have never had any access to the computer in the anthony family residence, i take it? >> no, ma'am. >> and never had access to any of the duct tape in the anthony family home? >> yes, ma'am. >> but if there is a bombshell moment for the defense, it's this. >> if those computer entries were made, then i made them. i was -- >> cindy anthony reveals that she was the one, not casey, who did searches for chloroform on the computer. it happened while she was looking up the word colorphil. >> both of the dogs would eelt the bamboo leaves and i started looking up chloroform. >> that was a moment in this entire trial. in one fell swoop, there goes first degree premeditated murder. >> but in the hard hitting cross-examination, prosecution put cindy's story to the test. >> were you on that website 84 times? >> i don't know. >> did you do 84 searches for the eff

. >> greta: roy kronk, the meter reader who found caylee's remains. why did he matter? that.the anthony home and to the woods where her remains were found. that's a t out. get out. get out. try tide stain release. it gets out tough stains better than the leading in wash powder booster. get out. get out. get out. [ female announcer ] see for yourself. get out and take the challenge. i could use a smartphone with social apps to stay up on what my friends are doing. and 's global, so i'll know what they're doing while they're doing it, even wn i travel. i'll have to act surprised when they tell me stuff. i don't have a good surprised face. maybe i can look up videos of surprised people on my new phone for reference. yep, i really want that phone. upgrade to the new droid incredible 2 by htc with global capabilities for only $149.99. now on america's largest, most reliable high-speed network. verizon. with less chronic low back pain. imagine living your life with less chronic osteoarthritis pain. imagine you, with less pain. cymbalta can help. cymbalta is a non-narcotic treatment

. >> greta: roy kronk, the meter reader who found caylee's remains. why did he matter? that.thony home and to the woods where her remains were found. that's all next. t out. try tide stain release. it gets out tough stains better than the leading in wash powder booster. get out. get out. get out. [ female announcer ] see for yourself. get out and take the challenge. >>>ñ6Ñwñ >>. >> low back p n. imagine living your life with less chronic osteoarthritis pain. imagine you, with less pain. cymbalta can help. cymbalta is a non-narcotic treatment that's fda-approved to manage chronic musculoskeletal pain. one pill a day, every day, can help reduce this pain. tell your doctor right away if your mood worsens, you have unusual changes in mood or behavior or thoughts of suicide. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. cymbalta is not approved for children under 18. people taking maois or thioridazine or with uncontrolled glaucoma should not take cymbalta. taking it with nsaid pain relievers, aspirin, or blood thinners may increase bleeding risk. severe

. >> and the guy who found her, kronk. a thing going on with that that we'll talk about.osecutors in the casey anthony trial laughing? what did the judge have to say about it? we're back. two minutes. 14 clubs. that's what they tell us a legal golf bag can hold. and while that leaves a little room for balls and tees, it doesn't leave room for much else. there's no room left for deadlines or conference calls. not a single pocket to hold the stress of the day, or the to-do list of tomorrow. only 14 clubs pick up the right one and drive it right down the middle of pure michigan. your trip begins at michigan.org. >>> we're not talking about fantasy forensics anymore. we're talking about cold hard evidence. evidence that points to one person. one person only. and he can get up here and lie all he wants and dance around the truth, but the truth is the truth. depending on who is asking the questions. whether it is this laughing guy right here or whether it is myself. >> objection. >> sustained. >> approach the bench. i'm beginning to see that orders or anything else may not mean

. >> and the guy who found her, kronk. a thing going on with that that we'll talk about.idge. up next, why is the prosecutors in the casey anthony trial laughing? what did the judge have to say about it? we're back. two minutes. >> lie all he wants and dance around the truth. the truth is the truth. depending on who is asking the question. whether it is this laughing guy right here or whether it is myself. >> up front. i am beginning to see that orders or anything else may not be -- it happens again, the remedy will be exclusion of that attorney from further participation in these proceeding. >> what you saw was an angry judge issues a stern judge issues a warning to the defense attorney and the prosecutor. i want to welcome back my panel now. and go straight to martin savidge and drew petrimoulx. you're both there for this moment. tell us about it, starting with you, marty. >> it was a very powerful moment. jose baez was really on a roll. he had built up to this crescendo. and he was delivering a powerful point about george anthony. then, of course, you see what looks li

when the supervisor for meter reader roy kronk called 911. >> one of my meter readers found a skull thatletal remains was found with two plastic garbage bag and a laundry bag, plant roots and vines in her hair and duct tape still clinging to her skull. her clothes and blanket in tatters. testimony that casey says made sherr so sick she had to leave the courtroom. then the medical examiner who performed caylee's autopsy gave her findings. >> by my experience and by what is known about the way homicides occur, not reporting that child missing, the fact that it is tossed in a field to rot in bags, is a clear indication that the body was trying to be hidden. those are even being put in a bag is a very big rid flag for homicide. never seen in an accidental -- death of a child. the fact there's duct tape anywhere attached to that child's face, is to me, indication of a homicide. >> the prosecution tried for a big finish. calling the tattoo artist who had an appointment with casey on july 2nd. just two weeks after caylee died. >> when ms. anthony came to your shop how was she acting? >> normal.

kronk had moved the bag and the contents had fallen out, tried to sell the jury on a prosecution -- and jurors aren't stupid. they want to figure things out themselves. they don't want to be force fed. >> this is an interesting issue, sunny. we heard a lot more than that jury heard. >> that's right. >> i don't know that we heard that much more, actually. i think this case was really transparent because of the cameras in the courtroom, because there was a good judge a very good judge, a good prosecution team, a good defense team, and i don't think that we heard so much more. i mean a lot of this evidence came in and linda just said, i was surprised at some of the forensic evidence that came in that hadn't really been tested in a court of law. i don't know that we heard -- >> dna 20 years ago and now it's -- >> no, this is different. >> but this is my question about it. how is public opinion so wildly different than what this jury saw? >> i think you heard cheney mason talk about it. she has been tried in the media. the local media started three years ago, she's a killer, irresponsible ba

other thing they did 180 on the roy kronk, meter reader that he redistributed the body.mitted that the body there. >> i think the biggest problem for the defense was i think jose baez was very kocondescending. that they shouldn't be fooled or duped. it was very condescending how they're going to get snookered by the prosecution. it didn't show any level of respect for the jury. >> he repeatedly said that the prosecution hasn't given any evidence of where caylee died or when caylee died. >> i think that in instead of focusing on as many answers they posed more questions. meaning that recognize now that the best argument they have reasonable doubt as to the cause of death. instead of saying, we know exactly how she died -- hang on one second, nancy. instead of focusing on this sort of -- you know, those long-shot-type arguments and definitive answers as to exactly how she died in the pool, they're sailing, we don't know how caylee died. >> nancy? >> bottom line, i think the state will argue you don't give a defendant a gold star because she managed to hide the body until d

that burden on themselves, they put up all these wild accusations that george molested her and roy kronknkrupt and lee molested. all this craziness. they didn't prove it. she was the only one that could have done it. it fell flat. they ant argue it in closing. the jury is going to be angry because they're going to feel like not only is the defendant a proven liar but her attorney lied to them as well. >> does he really have to knock it out of the park, the defense attorney, in closing? can he even -- i mean in these type of cases how much of a difference does a closing argument make after a month of testimony? >> i tell you what, these are exactly the cases where it's crucial because the jury has had a month of testimony. it's been so long since they've heard the state's case. everything is scattered. it's drawn apart. these are crucial times. these attorneys state and defense, need to get up and stitch all of those pieces back into a cohesive picture for the jury. and you know, you nailed it, t.j., he just does not need a home run here, it's got to be a grand slam. it has got to be out