he has a view that is exactly opposite of ksm's. ksm thinks all the jews should leave. they should die or go to europe. he is almost in different which of the two choices they take. the point is they should leave. matter meets anti matter in north carolina. what is interesting is there's not a single footnote in the 9/11 commission report referring to ac i a interrogation memo in which ksm says that his first assassination in america was that of myron kahan. the cia briefer does not believe him. they would be immediately curious. so i began investigating. there are a lot of links between the 1990 assassination four years after his speech in new york city and ksm. let's go through a couple brief ones. the man who drove the getaway car for that murder is the same man who drove the getaway car for the world trade center bombing in 1993. the man in the room of the marriott east new york hotel with video camera was supposed to videotape the moment of glory, two shots to the body, that man is also involved and on the bun laden truck in the 1993 world trade center bombing. and

>> the tip that captured ksm came through the cia. the largest cia station in the world is in islamabad, pakistan. they are fishing where the fish are, and that's where most major al-qaeda figures have been killed or captured. ksh is catchtured, and that famous photo of his hair askew and that hairy-chested photo, he was woken up sleeping on a floor, i believe the spare bedroom on the second floor of a house. s that is a joint operation -- that is the joint operation, the pakistanis were involved, but the intelligence originated with the cia partly through a walk-in. you know, anyone who's been to the spy museum knows that most of the time walk-ins are not trusted by embassy personnel or cia personnel because there's all sorts of reasons for walk-ins. um, sometimes it's a foreign service just trying to test the agency's procedures or to discover who is the intelligence officer in that delegation. and sometimes it's people offering false information for money. but this particular walk-in announced that he was going to be seeing ksm for

>> soufan: that was the alias for ksm. >> logan: did you know that? >> soufan: no. i had no idea. the only thing i knew at the time, i'm looking for a "mukhtar." so, when he said "mukhtar," it kind of, like, clicked. so i looked at it and i said, "oh, steve, you gave me the wrong photo." and i gave it to steve, so he will know who the mastermind of 9/11 is. >> logan: you're playing it very cool, but what's going through your head, really? >> soufan: "holy ( bleep )! k.s.m. is an al qaeda guy, the one in 9/11?" >> logan: it was an accident? >> soufan: totally. totally. >> logan: soufan says he believes abu zubaydah didn't mean to divulge important information, and was trying to give up as little as possible. was he well versed in >> logan: ...counter- intelligence? >> soufan: yes. he's... he's definitely well versed in counter-intelligence. counter-interrogation. he is a smart... he is, i can actually say, borderline genius. you know, i... i hear a lot of people saying he's an idiot. he's... no, he's... he's probably one of the smartest people i interrogated. >> logan: soufan thoug

i met a number of people, almost a dozen, in fact, who went to college with ksm and remember him. by the way, they remember him fondly. he was a comedian, a member of an inform mall student troupe of the friday tonight show putting on plays and skits and successfully and humorously imitate arab leaders, but his friends were the 20 other kuwait students. i couldn't find anyone who was not kuwait, arab, muslim, knew him well in school. his lab partner just remembers him as a person with very broken english. his professors remember him being good in math and science, but never had a conversation with him about nothing that didn't involve formulas, so he was in north carolina for almost four years, but he came into contact with americans on a very glancing basis. it's as if you are changing planes in a strange city, and you walk through the airport -- have you met the people of cincinnati? not really of the you, you passed by them. he policed the social perimeter to limit contact with americans, but sometimes events intervene. one of the things i learned, a surprise to me, was he had

i met a number of people, almost a dozen, who went to college with ksm who remember him. they must remember him fondly, a comedian, a member of an informal student troupe known as the friday tonight show where they put on plays and skits and did it very successful imitating arab leaders. his audience was the other 20 kuwaiti arab students. i could not find anyone who was not a kuwaiti arab, was in muslim handle him. his lab partner remembers him as a person who had broken english. his professors from him being good in math and science, but never had a single substantive conversation with him about anything that did not involve molecules and formulas. so he was in north carolina for almost four years, but he came into contact with americans on a glancing basis. it is as if you're changing planes in the city and walked to the airport. have you met the people? not really. that is what he did. he self isolated and policed the borders, perimeter. sometimes events intervened. one of the things i learned was that he had a criminal record in the united states. he likes to drive a

that was democrats who sided with republicans, trying ksm, in the u.s. who undermined the president sort of progressive instinks and that's what he's been dealing with from the beginning. >> why is it republicans bite their tongue more and don't run to "the new york times" when they're upset about something? >> it's interesting you say that. because i think when you're thinking about this base strategy the president is pursuing right now, it's true his numbers look relatively healthy among liberals. but the thing is, there is this group of white upper middle class folks he needs to win back, because they're loud. >> that's right. and that's, by the way, who john tester, ben nelson, they need for their re-election. maggi, joy ann, stick around. trivia time. what country is the newest member of the united nations? the answer, the republic of south sudan, which was admitted to the u.n. on july 14th, 2011. before that, the latest country to join the united nations had been montenegro in 2006. you're watching "the daily rundown" only on msnbc. >>> let's bring

i did not know what they would do if they had the equivalent of ksm. probably use miranda rights, i do not know. it and not -- in my mind, it is a mistake to give up those capabilities. i hope that there are no more attacks. but everyone drove to work with their carnegie -- car radio on and know that there is a threat, a sufficient capability that the party sama are saying -- it is unconfirmed but we're taking it very seriously. i say that it is a mistake for them not to stay as actively and aggressively involved. there is a brilliant piece on the notion that we overreacted. i do not think that we did. i think we did exactly what we had to do. the results speak for themselves. >> 1 or two more from me and then we open it up to others. you say that iraq was a central front in the war on terror. looking back on iraq, one things that people have focused on in reading in your book is the fact that you do not think that a lot of mistakes were made, and there's not much that you change about the wake of the iraq war was conducted. i notice in my reading of t

kaczynski, mcveigh, ksm, ramsey you receive, they're coldly pragmatic. sellingman's work, i think, is very good here. you can't think of a terror who's not morally outraged. you can't think of a radical who's not morally outraged. the question is, why, what are the roots of muslim rage, an essay by bernard lewis in 1990. big question. and for you, dr. horgan, and i like your work a lot, i respectfully disagree we should not address the viral propaganda that is used to incite on the bases of absolute goebbels-like fabrication. when you look at how iraq was used or our involvement in somalia, the million dead, the two million dead, the three million dead. these have never been countered officially with facts. >> sir, let's -- >> so anyway, moral outrage has a crucial variable. >> okay. would any of you like to respond to it? >> yes. i would like to respond. >> all all right. >> of course, it's very important. moral outrage is very important, but it should not be seen as distinct from belief. moral outrage is grounded in belief that tremendous injustice has