a black man who over four decades has tried to talk to america's most die—hard racists in the ku klux klanhe claims to have forged friendships with white supremacists and opened their minds. but is reaching out to the kkk a distraction from the bigger task of dismantling systemic racism? daryl davis in maryland in the us, welcome to hardtalk. thank you, stephen. i appreciate it very much. it's a pleasure to have you on the show. yours is a remarkable story. you've spent most of your life seeking dialogue with america's most extreme racists and white supremacists. is that something you are still working on, still seeking that dialogue? absolutely, every day. and how is it going right now? well, it's going fine, you know, given the pandemic. a lot of stuff is being done, as we are right now, over zoom, but i'm still pursuing this, you know, one way or another, whether it's in person or virtually. so i suppose many people watching this will be thinking to themselves, "well, if he's spent most of his life doing it, what's he achieved thus far?" let's take it right back to the beginning. let's

those are the statutes we are using under federal law to file this lawsuit. >> yeah, the ku klux klann era when the klan was using violence, im tim dags in the south, as you allege in the lawsuit defendants, mean the folks you are suing, violated the ku klux klan act which was declined to prevent the kinds of politically and racially motivated violence they caused and committed on january 6th. what is the burden you have to show here about their involvement? >> well, look, what we have to show is that there was actually a conspiracy among those individuals. and i think the paper trail shows that. a lot of this is available, frankly, in the public domain because of great reporting like yours and your colleagues w he also conducted a thorough investigation and demonstrate throughout the complaint how all of this alliance. it alliances through the tweets from trump and the line. from the public statements from these individuals leading up to the event of january 6th, the insurrection, but also long before that as well. all off this falls in line. all of these actors were working in commo

you think that back then the ku klux klan act was passed in order to prevent groups like the klan fromouth, which at that time was to have a multi racial democracy. there are echoes of that in terms of what happened on january 6th, where there was an attack on the vote and particularly the attack on the vote of people of color. and president trump and all the people that he conspired with, groups like the proud boys, they were trying to understand mine that vote. >> the house committee is debating a massive trove of documents related to january 6th. it includes documents that include trump family members. the former president plans to invoke measures to block that from happening. how can that tie into your lawsuit? >> obviously to the extent that there are documents that come out of the committee subpoenas and information that comes out of the committee subpoenas we'll learn more to the degree of coordination going on between the president and between all of these other groups with respect to causing the january 6th insurrection. >> and, john, do you expect to get your hands on those d

horde of young white supremacists, including neo-nazis, right wing militias and members of the ku klux klan descended on charlottesville, virginia, for an event they called unite the right. they marched with torches chanting "jews will not replace us" as they paraded through the campus of the university of virginia. it was eerily reminiscent of the torch light rallies held at nuremberg during the third reich. the following day they carried confederate flags and symbols of nazi genocide as they vowed to protect the statue of a treasonous confederate general and openly embraced donald trump as one of their own. in fact just months earlier, an organizer of the unite the right shouted hail trump, hail our people, and was greeted with nazi salutes and applause add a pro trump campaign rally. another organizer was a member of the proud boys which would later lead the siege of the u.s. capitol on january 6th. in other words, charlottesville, four years ago tonight, was a tinder box just waiting to ignite. inevitably, it did. in fact we witnessed some of the violence live on this very network when

pettis the storied confederate general the ku klux klan in man for whom so much the bridge is named. i am not an outsider who makes these demands. i am a great comment great-granddaughter. as much about the south about my teaching and writing here. there is however a peculiar model of southern pride and american pride. it must now at long last be reckoned with is not of ignorant pride in this a pride that says our history is rich. our causes are justified. our ancestors lie beyond reproach. that's greatness if you will. i wish again for a certain kind of american memory. a monument of modern memory. here's the thing our ancestors don't deserve your unconditional pride. they earn that pride by any decent person's reckoning. by virtue of my very existence to be bad actors. there are those that dismiss the hardships of their past. imagine a world of live and let honor they deny plantation raped or explain it away. it's a degree of frequency with which it occurred. to those people it is my privilege to say i am proof when what ever else i might have been and i believed itself to be was a

always this real of politics and prejudice in his life and in the book it showed again of the ku klux klan in the 1920s, the great plains is the name for it and iowa was one of the states included. he was surrounded by that. they believe that communism is the only that will end world oppression. i assume they didn't believe anymore that capitalism was the key. it's like i said in my talk that i thought was brilliant that it presented a tug-of-war between the american dream and the worker's paradise but why he worked on the red army intelligence and whether or not he knew what they were doing. if i could interview george, and we can't have him on the show but it would have been one of the questions i would have asked him of course, did he still believe in those ideals when he went into his red army military training to be a spy returning to his nation of birth and betrayal what was the psychological reasoning and how did he make sense of it. the man that had been described to him were not as such he loved baseball. how did he mix this all together in his head, do you have any thoughts? >> n

. >> head of the naacp voted with the majority to protect the rights of the ku klux klan calling formurder, the murder of african-americans. marshall was able tos. seek i he this, it scares me that i'm not going to take the role of shutting down another person's speech so what can we do? speak out against them but not to echo what we already believe. to do sometimes feels, if it doesn't hurt, it doesn't count. >> i think the first amendment itself is understood and the hardest thing, it's one thing to say have a right to speak but it's another to say you have a right to speak even though i hate what you are saying. the founding fathers put the first amendment in the constitution, ittu wasn't a snap deal, it wasn't the first thing they thought and also it wasn't entirely free speech of the time. >> ben franklin of all people, said when they pass first amendment, no one has be idea what they were doing. i forgot how heoi put it there s no debate during the convention someone brought up. the idea the late 18th century, it's extremely difficult. this has emerged in the last three years,

with of the majority to protect the rights of the ku klux klan calling for his own murder, calling formurder of african-americans. i'm not going to take the role of shutting down so what can we do. not to echo what we already believe, to do what sometimes feels if it doesn't hurt, it doesn't count, let's put it like that. >> i think the amendment is misunderstood and the hard thing it's one thing to say, yes, i had a right to speak and another to say you had a right to speak although i hate what you're saying. when the founding fathers but the first amendment in the constitution, it wasn't a snap deal or the first thing they thought of and also it wasn't entirely free speech at the time. >> ben franklin of all people said when they passed the first amendment no one had real ideas of what they were doing. there was no debate during the constitutional convention. it's emerged in the last 50 years. is it i don't want a free history but we also have to appreciate our achievements? know, the founding fathers seven years after the first amendment was passed, we passed an act that outlawed. t

then we had the ku klux klan that intimidated african-americans from voting. well, in alabama, most of the men that had weapons were the confederate soldiers. so they became the policemen. then they created all of these laws like loitering. if you were standing on the corner, you could be arrested. and they amended the state constitution to say that if you were incarcerated, you could be subcontracted out for labor which meant that they would arrest people and put them right back on the plantation to work. and then during the same time, we had all of the lynchings from 1860 to 1950. over 4,000 lynchings that took place during that time. so we had all of these things happening during that period, right up until 1954 where brown versus board of education. things kind of settled a little. and it was another ten years before the civil rights bill was passed. when that happened, we could go to any library in the city, not just this one. and the jim crow laws finally were taken -- the signs were taken down. integration took place. but even the schools were not reall

. >> thurgood marshall the head of the naacp the majority to protect the rights of the ku klux klan andcalling for his own murder calling for the murder of african-americans. marsha was able to see, i hate this. it scares me but i'm not going to take the role of shutting down another person speech. absolutely we should speak out against violence and absolutely we should speak out against it but not to echo what we are to believe. do we sometimes feels, if it doesn't heard it doesn't -- count. >> i think the first amendment so misunderstood and it's one thing to say guess i've are right to speak another thing to say you have a right to speech and i hate what you are saying. when the founding fathers that the first amendment and the constitution and wasn't a deal. it wasn't the first thing i thought of and also it wasn't entirely free-speech at the time. >> and franklin of all people said when they passed the first amendment they had no idea what the hell they were doing. i forgot how they put it but they put it beautifully. [inaudible] the idea of what free-speech was it's extremely diff

. >> the ku klux klan act, which is from the reconstruction era, 1871, when the klan was using violenceand terrorism to disrupt democracy in the south. as you allege in the lawsuit. what's the burden you have to show here about their involvement? >> what we have to show is that there was actually a conspiracy among these individuals. and i think the paper trail shows that, a lot of this is available in the public to domain because of great reporting by you and your colleagues. and we also conducted a very thorough investigation and demonstrated throughout the complaint how all of this aligns. it aligns through the tweets from trump and the like. it aligns from the public statements from these individuals leading up to the event of january six, the insurrection. but also before that as well. all of this falls in line. what they were common, they may not have been in the same meeting huddling together. but they are all related and all of a piece. >> i want to play for you some of the emotional testimony from one of the officers who was there, harry dunn, who testified before that committe

the ku klux klan borrows the template of the freemasonry.most interestingly beginning and southern italy in the early 19th century space exactly template made its way from the political sphere into the criminal sphere that man you can see there in the green jersey in 2008 was the last man to aspire i never none on. as all of the other members of the ruling commission of the time. the man as it happened next to him, then colonel monai chino, general mineo g, a friend of mine who worked a lot and knows a lot of people involved. lucas american sister organization is a sworn secret brotherhood, members of organizations join families it's a metaphor not mean it's all related. it's a metaphor for how closely knit they are does not mean they're all none on. those families and cells of the organization like masonic lodges but like being a member of the masonic lodge you also become a member of a wider network with contacts particularly across the atlantic and that is when the secrets. initiation, codes and rituals and so on it is unmistakably stole

. >> think of marshall, head of the naacp voting with the majority to protect the rights ku klux klanmen for his own murder, calling for the murder of african-americans. marshall can see, i hate this. this scares me i'm not going to take the role of shutting down another person speech. what can we do? absolutely week speak out against silence and against this but not to echo what we are to believe. to do what sometimes feels, if it doesn't hurt, it doesn't count. >> i think the first amendment is so misunderstood and the hardest thing, yes i have a right to speech but another thing have a right to speak even though i hate what you are saying. when the foundingin fathers put the first amendment in the constitution, it wasn't a snap deal, it wasn't the first thing i thought of, and also, it wasn't entirely free-speech at that time. >> ben franklin, of all people, said when they passed the first amendment, no one had real idea what they were doing. i forgot how he put it but he put it beautifully. there was no debate during the constitutional convention, someone brought it up they went w

supremacy, including but not limited to the institution of slavery, the eugenics movement, and the ku klux klan, and the ways in custom it was morally wrong. that bill is bad enough. but texas has already passed a law preventing the teaching of concepts that make students, quote, uncomfortable on the basis of race or sex. so if learn being the true bar barrism of american slavery, or the racist violence of the klan makes students uncomfortable, it's no longer required in the lone star statement but here's the thing about history. it should make you uncomfortable. many of the same founding fathers who wrote soaring words about liberty and justice for all owned human beings, trading, beating, and working them like cattle. being a patriot is knowing all of that and still believing in the promise of this country, that we can do better than our ancestors. luckily, most americans know that. even in ruby red, iowa, for instance. most people oppose the new law banning discussions of systemic racism and sexism in schools. but we can't get complacent. having public opinion on our side is not enough, beca

the history of white supremacy included but not limited to the institution of slavery and the ku klux klanto teach our children anything else is to rob them of the heritage and their truth and they deserve better. >>> yesterday was the 56th anniversary of the signing of the voting rights act by president lyndon baines johnson, but johnson didn't lead the movement that led to the voting rights act being passed, no, it was amelia boykin and john lewis and foot soldiers that marched all over the south, the mississippi project and others that forced the congress and the senate to pass a bill that lyndon johnson signed. that is why if we are going to get the senate bill 1 passed and the john lewis bill passed that will put teeth into the viting rights act it will not come from the white house down, it will come from the people up. that is why we're having this national voter rights march august 28th in washington, d.c. martin luther king iii and i are calling for that you should come. you should register at www.nationalactionnetwork.net. we lost a great ally this week, richard trumka whose last

so he lashed out at the rise, the resurgence of the ku klux klan after world war ii. the lynching of black veterans in the south after world war ii. he lashed out against segregation, jim crow. he lashed out at the rising power of the house on american activities committee. and that rising voices that seem to want a world war three with a new enemy, or the soviet union. he lashed out those who opposed immigration from europe, displaced people from europe. he was a big supporter of immigration. he took the liberal left side of politics in the media post world years. and he ran with, that he did a lot of hard-hitting cartoons in 1945, early 1946. >> the cartoon that we have up on the screen right. now go home junior, you're making me look silly! the klan who's saying this to his son who is trying out his father's customs. there but have to, ask bill was an extremely popular guy as the representation of the champion of the infantry, the common man in world war ii. but how do people react to the new bill? certainly, they had -- not everyone appreciates the new political c

his stories have helped put four ku klux klans men and a suspected serial killer behind bars. his stories helped lead to the release of two people from mississippi's death row. he is finishing his memomemoir. he is co-founder and director of the mississippi center for investigative reporting. earlier a degree in english with a concentration in journalism from jackson state university and mississippi. interestingly, she also worked for a few years at the clarion ledger newspaper in jackson, mississippi. her work focuses on how marginalized groups, especially women of color are portrayed in the media. jerry will talk about his remarkable civil rights reporting these past three decades. then we'll open it up for questions from the audience. so, you're on. thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you so much. appreciate it, chuck and thank you american university. looking forward to talking with you. great to be with y'all. let's back this up. one of them you may have heard about and one you may not have heard about. it involves medger evers. he fought in world war ii. fighting the nazis

so he lashed out at the rise -- the resurgence of the ku klux klan after world war ii, the lynching of black veterans in the south after world war ii. he lashed out against segregation, jim crow. he lashed out at the rising power of the house on american activities committee and the rising voices that seemed to want a world war iii with a new enemy or ally, the soviet union, he lashed out at those who began immigration from europe, displaced persons from europe. he was a big supporter of immigration. you know, he took the liberal left side of the -- of politics in the media post-war years and he ran with it and he did a lot of hard-hitting cartoons in 1945, early 1946. >> like the cartoon we have up on the screen right now. go home, jr., you're making me look silly the klansman says. bill was an extremely popular guy as the representation of the champion of the infantry, the common man in world war ii. how do people react to the new bill? certainly they loved him when he was championing the ordinary grunt but not everyone appreciates the new political cartoons. isn't that the nature of

the media must be terrified, for they are treating a conservative black man like is in the ku klux klan face of white supremacy. of course that only makes sense if you are a stupid jackass. elder -- the article was the usual trash talking session which when black activists on the left and black activists on the far, far left. to the liberal media, that's called covering both sides. two normal people, it means the left is boobs, there's that word, running ella forney into the ground. gavin newsom is hanging on by one hair gel slipped hand. judging by the new probe into his finances and estate in amida coming after him with everything they can dig up. just take a look at this clip from cnn's puckered fish or jim acosta. >> larry elder has made a number of disparaging remarks about women. what you listen to this, let me ask about this on the other side. >> when you look at all these women who have marched from something like 2 million women, donald trump has probably gotten more obese women off the couch and in the streets working out then michelle obama did in eight years. >> that's not e

they've brought claims ranging from violation of the ku klux klan act which is a civil rights statuteault and civil battery. some of these claims look like they really will survive an early motion to dismiss, and this indicates will proceed to discovery which could involve, for instance, depositions of some of the defendants including the former president. >> former president trump tried to claim executive privilege in the face of this request for documents from the january 6th committee. obviously he's no longer a part of the executive branch, but we know the house january 6th committee has subpoena power, so why were these requests for documents as opposed to subpoenas and does executive privilege apply to former presidents and apply to both requests and subpoenas? >> it is a complicated setting, and here this opening move of making requests or demand as committee chair bennie thompson has characterized them rather than issuing subpoenas permits voluntary cooperation, particularly from executive branch agencies. thompson has given them a two-week deadline for compliance. if they're

horde of young white supremacists, including neo-nazis, right wing militias and members of the ku klux klant they called unite t

when viola woman was killed by the ku klux klan after voting rights march, you can bet her five childrenetta scott king laid 39-year-old husband to rest, you can bet she was asking too. they were all great leaders. but they were also human. and we all have our moments of doubt. but let me remind you of something that caretta scott king said. freedom is never really won. you earn it and you win it in every generation. think about that. you earn it and win it in every generation. the arc lives in the hearts of all of those fellow brothers and sisters. we must bend that arc of the universe towards justice. in atlanta, there as an eternal -- there is an eternal flame that burns for caretta scott and martin luther king. i sometimes think about how fire is one of the most powerful forces in the world. it can be used to create warmth and generate power or can be an instrument of destruction. the truth is that there is a fire of hatred in the hearts of some people. and throughout that smoke they cannot see the humanity in people or the joy of community. there are smoldering embers of empathy in

so he he lashed out at the you know, rise the the resurgence of the ku klux klan after world war ii the you know, the lynching of black veterans in the south after world war ii he lashed out against segregation jim crow. he lashed out at the rising power of the house on american activities committee and the rising voices that seemed to want and world war iii with a new enemy or erstwhile ally the soviet union. he lashed out it those who opposed immigration from europe of displaced persons from europe. he was a big supporter of immigration. you know, he kind of he took the liberal left side of the politics in the media post war years and he ran with that and he did a lot of hard-hitting cartoons in 1945 early 1946. like the cartoon you have we have up on the screen right now go home junior. you're making me look silly that clansman says. you see is this little son? who's you know who's aping fathers of father's customs there, but you know, i do have to ask because bill bill was an extremely popular guy as the representation of the other the champion of the infantry the common man in worl

the new ku klux klan was reborn in 1915 in still mountain, georgia. it was inspired by d.w. griffith's first blockbuster movie, "birth of a nation." this clan is much more inclusive. it no longer just hates african-americans. it also now hates jews, catholics and immigrants. over the 1920s it will grow in strength and by the middle of the 1920s it claims to have 4 million members. this is no longer a southern organization. in fact, the majority of new klan membership, the preponderance of their strength is actually in the midwest. this picture is taken in muncie, indiana in 1922. and the klan is also reportraying themselves as an antiradical organization and they're attracting a lot of middle class people who are afraid of some of the social changes that are now swirling around the united states. social changes like these. now, we don't have time to talk about the red summer of 1919 and some of the deep racial violence that occurs. but i want to focus on this. this is the problem that doesn't end. in fact, between 1900 and 1917, over 12,000 african-americans are lynched. now

only did he premiere "the birth of a nation" which was all about black men being rapist and the ku klux klan is redeeming the south, and it's just like pretty horrendous to watch, kind of painful, if you have the time, you can have a look at it. it caricatures the radicals, especially thaddeus stevens. woodrow wilson, who is progressive mostly in economic policy and maybe to a certain extent in international relations, is really retrogressive, and it comes to race. he institutes segregation in washington, d.c. he fires all black federal government officers pause he doesn't want any black people in the federal government. he establishes the league of nations, of course, or helps establish it, even though it's voted down by the u.s. congress. but you know, he has this idea of national self-determination for everyone. and the moment people said, well, does this apply to asia and africa? he's like, of course not, i meant only for europeans. when it comes to race, he's extremely, extremely retrogressive. but that is how pernicious the dunning school was. it was in the white house. it was in holly

he believed that if you were being attacked violently by the state or by the ku klux klan or by racist neighbors that you were perfectly within your rights to defend yourself, right, by violence if necessary, right? so, again, there's another dichotomy there that, again, i found interesting, but i had some trouble relating to. as i progressed in graduate school, i was fortunate enough in the last ten years to read some books that helped to really broaden my perspective and horizons about how the story of the american west fit within that civil rights narrative that we've been talking about the last two weeks. and i kind of want to just lay out some of the themes for you because they connect in really concrete ways to the work that you guys are doing in your oral history projects. so randy shaw, in 2007, 2008, published a book called "beyond the fields." at this time in 2008, 2009, i had just finished b some of my course work at uc santa barbara and i came back to bakersfield to do some research. i actually got to teach a class at the university. so i assigned some of the scholars that

were folks like these white nationalist groups that they're charged under what the called the ku klux klan act because of the nation's long history of when there have been attacks on democracy it was orchestrated by the worst elements of our society. we're seeing that ongoing. one thing that the civil suits will do is give us a lot more information about what went on through discovery, but in the meantime the criminal justice system is moving in this sort of piecemeal way that is not giving these judges much satisfaction in terms of the justice that's being meted out. >> we have the best person in the world to keep these in front of us. your reporting is so essential, scott macfarlane, thank you so much. kim, david, thank you for spending time with us. the next hour of "deadline: white house" starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. we are just getting started. we are just getting started. you need an ecolab scientific clean here. and you need it here. and here. and here. which is why the scientific expertise that helps operating rooms stay clean is now helping the places you go ever

that's a flag that is really the flag of nathan flores when he became the big guy in the ku klux klan was his flag. and that flag was popularized by the movie "gone with the wind." that flag has never had an official status. so misinformation has been around for a long time, and the confederate battle flag is one of those things that a lot of people worship and they don't know -- have any idea what it is they are worshipping. they're worshipping false gods. and we have to remember the message is very, very important. i remember being told it's ridiculous to fight about the flag because it's just a rag. the cross means something. the cross is a sign of christianity. but tell me it's crazy for me to be against worshipping the flag because it's just a rag, it's not. it's a symbol. >> so, dwayne, as you research this film, as you did the hard work putting it together tracing from the civil war up until today, i guess the question is why it took so long for this to happen in the state of south carolina, why it took so long for that flag to come down. it's been very painful to a lot of peop

when a woman was killed by the ku klux klan after voting rights march, her five children were asking.o rest, you can bet she was asking too. they're all great leaders. they were also human. we all have our moments of doubt. let me remind you of something she said, freedom is earned and you win it in every g generatio. you earn it and when it in every -- win it in every generation. for those secure about their fellow others and system -- brothers and sisters. we must bend that arc of the universe towards justice. there as an internal flame -- eternal flame that burns. fire is one of the most powerful forces in the world. it can be used to create worms and generate power or can be an instrument of destruction. there is a fire of hatred in the heart of some people. they cannot see the humanity of people or the joy of community. there are smoldering g embers of empathy, they see the truth that people are treated differently because of the caller of their skin. failed rather turn away and let that -- they would rather turn away and let that forest burned because it is not their forest. in