troops on the ground in a combat role to help the kurds. i thought your setup was really, really good. provided a thorough history of what's going on. flash forward to today and what's happening actually this day. you have kurdish peshmerga who have very gritty, determined and fighting in sinjar and other places. essentially president obama's strategy here is to provide support from the background to those forces. and i don't think it means the u.s. needs to have extended air bombing campaigns and it certainly doesn't mean that the u.s. goes back in there with combat boots on the ground. but we do need to back capable and reliable allies like the kurds and i think that's going to be a centerpiece of dealing with this problem of the islamic state. the kurds, our friends in jordan, turkey, which is a nato ally, they are going to be the ones that i think are on the front lines of this. and we need to offer that vital support. >> well, i guess the question, then, do you think the kurds are capable, in terms of ground personnel, are the kurds ca

this has also given hope to kurds in neighboring turkey. the prime minister is hoping to get the support for presidential elections in a few weeks time, but the kurds also want more -- the prime minister is hoping to get the support for presidential elections in a few weeks' time. >> young kurds come to istanbul to cultivate their music and language, a right that they long fought for. after 35 years of civil strife, the government in and kara -- in ankara has extended a hand to help them. the kurds in iraq are standing on a brink of a national state of their own. >> that would mean an opportunity for us to express our demands even more forcefully, and the iraqi kurds ought to support us, just as we support them, but we also should not forget our brothers and sisters in iran in syria. >> the capital of the iraqi kurdistan region is far away geographically from the iraqi capital baghdad, geographically and politically. the autonomous region is taking advantage of the ongoing conflict to advance the cause of an independent state. a fully indep

the bottom line to me is the kurds deserve our support. for the last year we should have been equipping them and supporting them. we didn't because we were concerned about maintaining a centralized iraqi state with maliki, who acts as a shiite despot. i think we have muddled thinking on what we're trying to achieve in iraq. and so these pinprick strikes -- if you're going to protect refugees, 50,000 people without water and food, you don't do two fa-18 strikes on an artillery unit somewhere in the vicinity. >> right. general mccaffrey, i'd like you to hang on. i want to go to erbil now. i've got a reporter on the ground there, tracy shelton of "the global post" on the ground in erbil. how concerned are the kurds that isis is on the move? >> reporter: there's a lot of concern here. yeah, a week ago if you asked anybody, everyone was 100% confident in the peshmerga army and the kurdish forces that they could hold isis back. there was not really any question of it. even these minority groups like the yezidis, the christians, they were very cl

so that the kurds can be the foot soldiers against isis. this could perhaps turn the tide against isis going forward. pcall to say whether this will t work or not. certainly the kurds should now be able to defend their territory but whether they can push isis back into mosul or maybe back even into syria is really a question that remains unanswered. >> it is no doubt a complicated situation. a lot of history that brings us to where we are now. gareth stanfield, we appreciate your insight on this situation in iraq. >> thank you. >>> coming up after the break -- new developments in the conflict in gaza. we'll have a live report coming up from the region. >> plus, ukrainian forces surround the rebel-controlled city in the east and those inside warning of worsening humanitarian crisis. u eat - but do you know what's in your skincare? neutrogena naturals. a line of naturally derived skincare with carefully chosen, clinically proven ingredients and no harsh chemicals. healthy skin-starts from within. neutrogena naturals. >>> welcome back. in the

has been a strong ali to the kurds and president barzahni.t of the country has deteriorated along sectarian lines. the kurdish fighters have a good reputation but ammunition is running low. if the kurds fall it could lead to a domino effect. >> this is a terrorist organization that has ambitions not only in iraq and syria and the region. but also regionally and therefore it could pose a threat ultimately to the united states. >> reporter: america's support for the kurds soared after hundreds of thousands of people were brutalized under the rule of saddam hussein. the kurds have long made overtures to iran forging alliances on all sides but see personally to the united states. >> that has created a loyalty which explains why the united states is getting involved right now and why the u.s. wasn't involved a week ago. >> reporter: now two decades later, the kurds are an ali that the u.s. can't afford to lose and may be critical in the attempt to stop isis. >>> the mideast cease-fire ending in violence. we go to gaza where the shelling has indeed

bring the kurds to the table again. bring the shiites that are moderate and bring the sunnies back together. many people do not like seeing this destruction. >> marine corps gunnery sergeant retired. good to see you. thank you. >> trying to get nouri al-maliki to do the right thing for a long time. some lawmakers are warning that airstrikes may not be enough, and clearly they may not be enough to keep the islamic state from carrying out attacks on northwestern soil, but american soil is later. today is genocide. still, the republican senator their tactics were even too radical for al qaeda and they split. in 2013, calling. thes the islamic state of iraq and al sham, or isis, or the lahm islamic state of iraq and now it's just the islamic state. we have watched as their territory and finances have grown, see them taking over oil fields, banks, and weapons, as we no some of our own. >> they want everyone who does not ascribe to strict islamic sharia law to be murdered. >> that's right. they want them to convert to islam o

isis is trying to consolidate kurd stan and make sure the kurds are never a force they have to reckon with. >> tell me, where are we going with this? what's going to happen? >> look, i don't want to be a profit of doom and i don't pretend to have the gift of prophesy, but it is a dire circumstance for the best allies we have in the world. israel is the only one that is better. what you are about to see is the kurds suffer devastating defeats and the inability to help all those refugees. when you were there seven months ago, they were getting refugees by the hundreds. now they are getting them by the tens of thousands. we have done nothing to help. this administration, with its lead from behind strategy has abandoned, as i say, the second best allies we have in that part of the world are the kurds. and the al maliki regime in baghdad is inept. >> when i was there it was fun to be an american in that part of the world. they kept thanking the united states for all they had done to help the kurds. where ever i went, they had good to say. it might be a different story tonight. colonel nort

through other support of the kurds you can provide kurds the ability to push back. no matter how much you do around erbil you can't roll isis back without a much larger campaign. that's the big strategic question for the president going forward. >> gene? >> that's the question. is the idea to contain isis and stop them right there so i they don't take erbil or oh go further, which i think these attacks could do. or is it to destroy this genocidal group that's taken over a huge swath of territory and provides a huge threat. ultimately for the united states. >> who are we talking to with these attacks. we are not trying to eliminate the enemy. we are trying to talk to them. stop. we are shooting at them like a shot across the bow. stop or we'll keep shooting. >> that's the signal. at the same time we are told the iraqi air force has been operational today. we have long -- >> what do you think of the air force? >> not much. in fact, weeks ago when we first started talking about isis's advance into iraq they said, we can't get involved. giving them hellfire missiles won

sunnis and the kurds particularly. i think it's time for us to put even more pressure on it. in terms of allies, i think he was talking about humanitarian aid. >> on saturday morning, he said all of this stuff. everything he just said, he said saturday morning, why did they interrupt "the five" to say this? >> what do you think, greg? >> i find it interesting he's blaming maliki. president obama who has spent the past five or six years to divide the country. >> he doesn't see himself as that. he sees himself as a grieat uniter. >> i think that maliki simply got to go. look, if it comes to the case where you say to the military, no more support until this guy goes, i think they'll turn on him and they should. i'm glad to see the best fighters in that country, the kurds are now fighting and fighting effectively, i think isis is going to be pushed back for the first time. >> let's hope so. >>> straight ahead -- did president obama underestimate the threat of isis? well, a lot of people think so. you're going to hear this

the kurds are fighting with obsolete equipment.nd it's absolutely imperative, as mike barbaro said to get them equipped immediately. >> i'm so glad you made that point. general, i do want you to follow up on that. we have learned that isis has all of these weapons that were left behind when the iraqi army fell apart. some of them are u.s. weapons. and so what is the peshmerga to do. we've heard they're an impressive fighting force, but they're outgunned. >> they're outgunned and overmatched, alisyn. another kurd told me a story about our up armored humvees being used by isis as suicide vehicles. and the kurds say we have no weapons that can penetrate that armor. so we have a force that is willing to fight. we have a force that has requested america's aid weeks ago. they're not requesting boots on the ground. >> so why are we resisting? if that's the answer, mr. rheeder, why are resisting giving them weapons? >> well, some of the resistance has come from trying to support a one iraq, which at this stage is a fiction. i believe it sh

the kurds are not isis. the kurds are not involved in a sunni revolution in syria that neither side is the good guy. i think there's a tremendous amount of sympathy from people who served in the u.s. military for the kurds and their population. that's why you see my support. >> john and tony, thank you both. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> that's the military angle. up next, the diplomatic effort with ken pollack. much more ahead on our special breaking hour here one. "the cycle." at humana, we believe the gap will close when healthcare changes. when frustration and paperwork decrease. when healthcare becomes simpler. so let's do it. let's simplify healthcare. let's close the gap between people and care. fancy feast broths. they're irresistabowl... completely unbelievabowl... totally delectabowl. real silky smooth or creamy broths. everything she's been waiting for. carefully crafted with real seafood, real veggies, and never any by-products or fillers. wow! being a cat just got more enjoyabowl. fancy feast b

in arming kurds in iraq as washington and its allies get ever deeper involved in the conflict. three people are killed as ukraine's army pounds the outskirts of deniece with shells the u.n. says more than two thousand people have already been killed in the conflict. and the e.u. is reportedly pressuring other countries not to expand their trade with russia as moscow's food embargo takes its toll we take a look at how the trade wars are expecting europe's economies. fortunately the national coming to you live from moscow i'm marina joshie and more of america's allies are getting involved in iraq france says it will now join the u.s. in sending weapons to kurdish resistance forces and their fight against islamic state jihad is meanwhile the british prime minister has cut short his holiday to deal with the iraqi crisis let's now cross live to a correspondent boyko and point to tell us what action is a british government taking on this crisis. well that emergency cobra meeting that the prime minister returned from his holiday for is now over and no big decisions taken there yet the

iraqis come together and form an inclusive government president obama may want a unified iraq but the kurds have long wanted out and arming kurdish militia forces could lead to a permanent breakup of iraq any peaceful cessation of the kurds from iraq would like to bring the region several days and multi-ethnic cities as well as major world they say both kurdish and testing shared corey now is pressing as the current defense in the dark the question is whether the weapons provided the defense today . in washington and to track down are. former u.s. congressman and presidential candidate ron paul spoke exclusively to us about the prospects for america's latest moves in iraq he told us the united states risks sinking deeper into the conflict unless it leaves iraqis to do with the islamic state on their own. the kurds have always had this reputation of being great fighters and that they're very good day out in town and i'm surprised that they

not aid the kurds, defeat isis.ot enable the sunni tribal militias to defeat isis but for those two limited objectives, if he follows what he said, the american military involvement cannot be consequential. >> we're going to talk about it in a minute, the issue of the mosul dam, which may be a far bigger problem that's associated with isis. ambassador, thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> the u.s. is dropping some bombs and humanitarian aid in iraq but is that enough to stop them. what weapons do they have? first of all, this operation is not named. is there any -- should we -- does that mean anything? this is not an operation let's go back in or operation let's save anybody. why isn't it named? >> remember the last time we went into kurdistan, we had operation provide comfort that did on a much larger and grander scale what the president is trying to do here. no, this is -- >> does that mean anything at all? >> it means a lot to a military man. it means it's not an operation. it's just a pinprick. it's just a side show

now, these people are related to the kurds. so the kurds have an affiliation with them.the kurds would probably be willing to go do this, but they're going to need a lot of support. the kurds have been severely damaged now, and they don't have the resupply that they need. from the iraqi government. >> and the iraqis can't do this, can they? there's absolutely nothing they can do leading up to this. >> exactly. this is too far in. >> too far gone. >> behind the isis lines. and the iraqi army has basically collapsed in front of isis as they move down the tigris valley. so the chances of the iraqi military doing anything up here other than airstrikes and air drops is probably pretty remote. and they don't have enough air to do this effectively. >> it's just unbelievable to think that it's been allowed to get this far with that many innocent people just literally surrounded. but ultimately, you know, what can you do, if you're not putting boots on the ground, what can you do other than -- >> air drops. >> drop the -- well, we'll see how that works. colonel francona, thank yo

if iraq works again, the kurds will sign up to. but the idea is that there has to be a new mechanism, a new arrangement with baghdad where the status quo can be maintained amicably. and it's no good to say in the past the iraqi government used to say that the -- therefore, this article is dead. in other words, don't even talk about having kirkut. now with the events of this past june, the reality changed, so suddenly baghdad -- alive and the kurdish state is dead. but neither would be correct constitutionally. they would have to come up with an amicable arrangement where they can actually implement all three components of article number 40 as soon as possible, otherwise, this is a stalemate that could be a recipe for disaster. >> could you remind us of those three elements? one is reconciliation. though some people are -- give it a try. but there has to be a free state of reconciliation compensation and referendum and there's an element that the president has to define the areas so maybe people will know more about these three elem

if iraq works again, the kurds will sign up to it. but the idea is that there has to be a new mechanism and new arrangement with baghdad, the status quo can be maintained amicably. therefore, this article is dead. in other words, don't even talk about having kirkut. now with the way things happened and the events of june, 2014, the reality changed. alive and the kurdish state is dead. neither would be correct constitutionally. they would have to come up with an amicable arrangement where they would have to implement articles. otherwise, this is a recipe for disaster. >> what are those three elements? >> one is reconciliation. i'll give it a try. you can look it up. there has to be a state of reconciliation, rev referendum, an element that the president has to define the areas that maybe people who know more about these three elements. but i think it depends with the word referendum that has to be done. and this compensation element as well. all of these can happen under the curdish control. it does not have to be baghdad that does tha

, training the kurds. i think the president makes a big mistake when he tell them what he's not going to do. >> starting with this, general jack keane told maria bartiromo that the u.s. should target the banks in the middle east where isis does business. why hasn't that happened yet and do you know if this is part of the plan? >> i have no idea what the president's plan is, and i don't think the president knows what his overall plan is. and general keane, i have the utmost respect for him. i think he's told me right about the banks and why it doesn't happen up until now, i think the president and his administration have been a state of almost denial. the president keeps talking about how he ended the war in i rack and tries to block iraq out of his mind and only now he's taking his last-ditch efforts in kurdistan. but i fully agree with general keane because the money they are getting, that's going to isis is for instance, the attacks cost maybe a couple thousand dollars, out of mosul alone, isis was able

and the kurds could get to them if we were to bomb the isis lines so the kurds could get to them to save this is not about us rebuilding iraq, saving iraq in general. but we can save these people at a relatively low cost. and i think there's a moral imperative to do it. >> talking to someone from unicef a moment ago in the sinjar area describing to me how these children are dying on the mountain. and because it's so rocky, they're being buried in shallow graves by their own parents as they are hoping to survive just to paint the gruesome picture that exists. the question a lot of critics are asking of the obama administration, the why now, right? because isis has been taking control for eight months now beginning with fallujah. and we all know what happened what's been going on in syria. >> right. arguably, it's true that the obama administration might have wanted to be something more decisive earlier on. i've been critical with them for sticking with nuri al maliki in giving him a blank check while he was alienating the population for years which is part of what allowed isis to grow. lo

you have to let the kurds do it. we should be supporting the kurds. >> mike, i want to bring you in. what if the u.s. air strikes don't work and isis keeps advancing on erbil. what else can president obama do? >> i don't have any doubt if we commit significant air powers to support the kurds the kurds, in conjunction with the air power can stop isis advancing to ere bui erbil. that's only going to solve one small part of the problem. which is protecting erbil and the kurdish region in the north. the larger problem is we have isis controlling an enormous swath of land between syria and iraq with significant military might. probably money into perpetuity the way they're running the region. reasonably good local support and clearly a target beyond the region. and what is the u.s. government going to do about that? are we going to sit back and allow that to continue or simply going to look at this as a real not just regional but global tension? >> general, i want to ask you this. in june they were talking about isis talk

resistance fighters in northern iraq so far the only sending light weapons and ammunition but the kurds also want rocket launchers and tanks artie's gun if you can report some of the weapons being used by the jihadists were also made in america. thousands of iraqis are helpless in the face of terror from the islamic state the jihadi militants are ruthless and well armed they say hard us forces in iraq are probably the strongest the hardest forces in the region and in the world they are equipped with advanced american weapons and that's how they were able to ethnic cleansing minorities christian and it's the the minorities from many areas in kurdistan or south of go to stan and now they're attacking kurdistan u.s. officials see no alternative to sending weapons to combat the extremists who now fight with american weapons you cannot confront isis with flowers at the same time flooding an already deeply divided country with more weapons could backfire in the future if there is no american military solution. in iraq the only way. is for iraqis come together and form an inclusive government

and with the kurds, now we see good example how we can do. this we have got kurds on the ground who are fighting, very courageously, against isis. we should be supplying them with heavy weaponry so they can actually wage a fair fight against isis and provide the air strikes and the cover that will help finish this battle once and for all for them. >> representative gabbard, please don't go anywhere. we will keep you till after the break, we have a a lot of other stories we are monitoring, including two others overseas, humanitarian crisis glowing eastern ukraine and fragile cease-fire between israel and hamas. we want to your take on both those stories. please stay with us, right after this. fill their bowl with the meaty tastes they're looking for, with friskies grillers. tender meaty pieces and crunchy bites. in delicious chicken, beef, turkey, and garden veggie flavors. friskies grillers. but you're not done. capella university can help take your career even further, with the most direct path to your point "c". capella university. start yo

the kurds have requested arms, equipment, and ammunition. they're not requesting us to come in and fight for them. they'll fight. the peshmerga will fight. the tragedy is this weekend when there were reports of peshmerga forces breaking contact and withdrawing, i was told by another kurdish leader today they ran out of ammunition. so what the kurds need and what we should be providing to them are the arms, the ammunition, and the equipment that they need to fight isis. these air strikes are nice, but you can't air strike your way out of this. we have to enable the kurds to be able to fight and defend themselves. >> mr. reiter, what do you think? >> well, i couldn't more violently agree with general barbaro. you can't do everything. i applaud the president, finally, for making the decision tonight to support with air strikes. but you can't close here. this is on the ground with a vicious, merciless force. the kurds are the very best friends we have in the middle east. they've always been there. second only to israel. we have no better friends

and so in a way, all this military effort is going to bolster the kurds, because the kurds are now theing isis. i know it gets very complicated. but remember, three communities, the shia, the sunnis, the kurds. the kurds have been the strongest american allies. they're now under threat. so i think it's a very smart and appropriate that we bolster them. because if they fall, that would be a pretty dangerous situation for the region and a catastrophe for the united states. >> but it sounds like there is reason for hope tonight. if we are able to beat back isis with air strikes, because i hear that there are 20,000 strong? is that some of the estimate in terms of the fighters of isis. if the air strikes were to work, and if we were to arm the kurds and help bolster them, it's possible to get rid of isis in iraq. >> i think it's certainly possible that you kind of cripple them. get rid of them i think really does depend on that political solution where you bring back the sunnis so there aren't a lot of disaffected sunnis. but you're absolutely right. the kurds have been very -- they have b

kurds are actually the hero. there is a lot of diversity on that. >> the tragic thing now is that some people are saying that a huge, a huge percentage of these groups have been wiped out already. that they're already dead, that they're being buried alive. not to be too graphic, but isis doesn't really care about how these group that you're helping feel. right? >> that seems to be true. i've seen description of isis as something like a death cult where they apparently prize death above anything else. that seems to ring true for many of the people that we're among and caring for right now. they're not going to listen. hopefully we can continue to -- i haven't heard that anyone's been wiped out yet. if by that we mean completely gone, there are still yazidis among us, still christians among us from the assyrian side. there are still sunni muslims and shia muslim whose have been driven out that are not completely extinct yet. turkmen. so the suffering has been horrific but i'm not hearing or seeing anybody's been co

is trying to help the kurds directly through the cia.ow it's a small program but there is a wider discussion about how they cap hen help the kurds most fully. as you know, the u.s. goes through the central government in baghdad to give the entire iraqi military support but now the iraqi military is helping them out -- >> let's be preside. is the cia providing arms directly to the kurdish peshmerga fighters? >> that's our understanding, on a very limited scale. >> i want to bring in the chance lore of the kurdistan region security counsel, the son of the regional president marsud basani. what can you tell us? have you heard the cia is providing the peshmerga fighters directly weapons? >> thanks for having me. unfortunately, the help came a little too late. now there has been some shipments of supplies, of mostly ammunition, to the peshmergas. but if there had been support, military support to the kurds, most of what we see happening now could have been prevented. >> because the peshmerga are wonderful, very heroic fighters. i know you've

this as the kurds make gains over the weekend against those militants. regaining control of two vmg villages from the terrorist group isis. they're getting help from u.s. military forces from the air. overnight strikes continue to pummel isis near irbil where some u.s. people are being located from the state department. and the u.s. continues to drop humanitarian aid to thousands of yezidis trapped in the sinjar mountain. some managed to escape to all places syria. many are too weak to make the trip. oo iraq isn't just in crisis. there's a political crisis as prime minister nuri al maliki tries to hold on to power. he's accusing the country of the president's of staging a cue by not naming al maliki as prime minister. this morning naming the deputy parliament speaker in his place. john kerry warned al maliki this morning against stirring the waters. >> we believe that the government formation process is critical in terms of sustaining the stability in iraq. our hope is that mr. maliki will not stir the waters. >> joining me now from irbil, iraq. we hear

help the kurds. the kurds are the only friends we've got outside of israel.ighting a good fight against a blood cult. >> but he kept stressing over and over again in those remarks that unless the iraqi government takes part in settling its own problems, the united states cannot be dragged into another military combat situation in that country. >> well, i'm not splitting hairs now. but he's right to the point that the people of the middle east have to ultimately solve their own problems. but the iraqi government can't solve them because there is no government of iraq. we need to just erase iraq and syria from the map. they don't exist as we formerly knew them. they're not coming back. mr. president, deal with the reality on the ground, and the reality is we're seeing the emergence of an offshoot of islam, something new. an absolute blood cult. governor huckabee was right but i would go farther and say we're seeing something coming up that the closest parallel is the aztecs. it is a celebration of butchery. like all religions, islam has had some cruel patches i

eric: who are the kurds? they are mainly sunniss. kurdistan consists of three provinces including irbil. they make up 15% to 20% of iraq's population. the u.s. has a history of protecting the kurds with the no-fly zones. they opposed saddam hussein. nato is going to take call steps possible to defend turkey. the head of nato saying that nato is have much concerned about the activities of isis. calling isis a bunch of terrorists, saying it is the utmost importance to stop the isis advance. >> where are we now with all of this. president obama describing renews u.s. action in iraq including airstrikes as a quote long-term project and asking for patients from the american people. but critics are saying the impact of his original pullout from the iraq war ... steve, when you look at this situation, the presentation of it from the white house is that they were a bit caught off guard. the intel they got didn't give them the magnitude of what was going on with isis but when you look back there are markers and knowledgeable people talked abo

protected the kurds with a no-fly zone over northern iraq.ou got a certain version of that, as one senior kurdish leader explained to it, instead of a no-fly zone that we had more than a decade, now we have an american aerial umbrella protecting iraqi kurdistan. >> peter is there any negative to further arming the kurds on america's part? >> i don't think so. i think it's important for viewers to understand the difference between what happened to the iraqi army and what's gone on in kurdistan. the iraqi army which was heavily armed by the united states basically collapsed. they ran away. they -- in some cases, they turned their weapons over to isis, in other cases, isis captured them. that's why isis has the military advantage that it has. we didn't arm the peshmerga and so they were driven back because they were faced with armored vehicles and superior weaponry and also they were running out of ammunition and having to care for all those people that ivan watson was describing. but they withdrew as units. so they are still there. they are cap

we ought to be aiding the kurds militarily in a much more serious way. we should be providing them with advisors, we should be provided them with sophisticated equipment. they are running low on ammunition. they don't have the weapons to match the i.s.i.s. fighters. so absolutely we should be providing them with assistance. one of the problems and one of the equations that the administration is trying very carefully to balance though is they don't want to get between the government in baghdad and north. in fact they've insisted thus far that anything we provide to the curd kurds should be done th baghdad since they are in political dispute right now. >> that's the problem, the iraqi government has been reluctant to provide the kurds with the armament keeping most of it for the iraqi army itself. the islamic state's leader threatened the u.s. on friday calling us the holder of the cross and calling for a direct confrontation with his fighters. is there any doubt at this point that the islamic state has replaced the world with the biggest threat the u.s. h

entire weight of american military, plus work with the kurds, plus provide weaponry with the kurds who have been good fighters. no one more loyal than kurds. and why wit for iraqi government in place. the president says there is possible military action with the government, why wait for that, let's start now. >> all right. congressman peter king, thank you for your views this morning. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> we want a little more depth on the situation in iraq. i'm joined by michael leiter, nbc national security analyst, former director of counter-terrorism. robin wright, author of "rock the casbah," jeffrey goldberg. exclusive interview with hillary clinton on syria, terrorism and leadership matt world which we'll get to in just a minute. i'm trying to make sense of all this. there's layers to it. michael, i really want people to understand what we're up against with isis. >> this is not just a normal terrorist group. this is a terrorist army that now controls land. i think this would be clear if they kept their old name. this is al qaeda in iraq, which has become islamist s

we're also fighting for the kurds. the president is hesitant to say that but the kurtz are our key ally and they are in trouble. if they fall, we have even more trouble. we're doing a couple things. and there's the humanitarian picture. we have a selective outrage about humanitarian problems in the middle east. >> how about the president in 2007 said it's not as for humanitarian reason we're going to send troops in the congo. >> how do you pick people to save? you could make a good argument that we have stayed on the sidelines in syria for years where 170,000 people have been killed. we're saving these paeople in iraq? it's a devilish problem, i will admit that. >> robin, i don't know that everybody understands when we talk about a sunni/shia split, it's what has given isis space to grow, like fuel for a forest fire. it keeps attracting more fighters and more energy because these are disaffected sunnis from syria through iraq. >> absolutely. the sectarian problem is one we see now across the middle east and it's beginn

>> the kurds in northern iraq are not looking for a war. they are in a desperate fight for the well armed islamic state militants and have appealed to the international community and germany has yet to act.f.- for decades, it has been policy not to export weapons to conflict zones. but there have always been exceptions. >> the human rights situation is a disaster and there is the threat of genocide. >> it seems contradictory. the country was considered unstable then, too. there are other cases of conflict zones. westerman manufactures provided a number of african governments with weapons, especially assault rifles. it has been used against the kurds. >> where the country was attacked from outside. >> may end up in the wrong hands in the long run. but still. >> not only a very reliable ally but also an important partner for europe including in the fight against terrorism. >> the kurds find germany's hesitance hard to understand. they need rearming fast. worrying about what happens to the guns in the long run is a luxury they don't have. >> g

separate from iraq. >> there's a lot of kurds -- at the heart of every kurd, they want an independent state. there's no question. i think we have to recognize that. we also have to recognize the kurds are among our closest friends in the region. we have to have a close, close partnership with the kurds, and we do. but there's also a pragmatic element given the economic realities and other thing in which we want to work closely with the kurds on their future. i think the future within the constitutional structure, the kurds right now are choosing their nominee to be the president of iraq, and we hope to have that sorted out over the coming days. but again, within the constitutional framework and we've had conversations just over the last week when i was in erbil, and with the leadership of the patriotic unity of kurdistan, about their future, about how we can work with them on their future and about a future within the constitutional framework and at least in the near term, i think that's the best way to go. >> i just don't feel that it's fair to hold the kurds hostage because we've, u

a lot of kurds now are starting to talk about how the u.s. basically protected this region for more than ten years with a no-fly zone up till the u.s. invasion of iraq in 2003 and perhaps we're starting to see a fresh version of that, version 2.0 today with the threat of the isis militants in 2014. >> relief among the kurds. we'll be talking to you in a mat of minutes. jake tapper takes over live from jerusalem, "the lead" starts now. >>> the u.s. military has launched a second round of air strikes in iraq. i'm take tapper. this is "the lead." the word lead, fewer than three years after the last u.s. combat troops left iraq, american fighter jets are once again bombing targets in that country. will it be enough to keep american advisors and religious minorities on the ground safe from those bloodthirsty jihadists? also, so much for the cease-fire. missiles and rockets are flying once again between israel and gaza after that fragile truce ended early this morning with a barrage of palestinian rocket fire. and after pleas from humanitarian grou

we talk about the kurds and motivation. if you're talking about motivation and ideology, the reason why the islamic state is winning battles, had is high inspiration, high motivation. leadership effort. it's not just about arms. you're talking about really the numbers of isis are between 10 and 15,000. you're talking in terms of power. you're talking about 100,000 in terms of military prowess without driving a wedge. between isis and the islamic state and local communities. this will take years, years to basically dislodge isis from various communities, not just in iraq, but syria. we talk about iraq. the headquarters of isis is in syria. >> can i interrupt you for a second? i want to ask you very quickly, the obama administration says we will not provide unqualified support to the iraqi government until it broadens itself and opens itself up to true national unity government with sunnis. is that the right strategy? >> absolutely. what does the u.s. government need? it means taking the fight to isis. it means bringing in th

but the maliki government has shortchanged the kurd and sunni regions in redistributing the revenues. yet ordinary iraqis seem most concern with sharing the oil. those we met said what they really want is a peaceful country in which to live their lives. this woman fled mosul with her family when extremists took over in june. we met her in a shopping mall. >> we hope things get better, we ask only for peace and security. >> warner: baghdad lawyer aqil al hayali said rampant sectarian violence had forced him and his wife from baghdad. >> ( translated ): there is a 20% possibility i will go back but things have to get better, i thank god we don't have kids right now. >> warner: but can the political system deliver on reconciliation, and in the face of the i.s threat? for answers, we went to two major figures, one from each alienated camp: kirkuk governor karim, a kurd, and sunni arab ali hatem al-suleiman, leader of iraq's largest tribe, whose fighters in 2006-2008 helped u.s. forces turn the tide against al qaeda in iraq. governor karim won the election three years ago with a huge major

they are still going into the territory held by the kurds. a white house briefing is happening within the hour, and we're tug to the kurds when the u.s. military involvement and the policy, and when this brogue starts, we'll of course bring it to you live. >>> in the meantime, in northern iraq, the u.s. military airstrike does not appear to have lessened the anxiety and the fears in the kurdish capital of erbil. >> reporter: we are told that the airstrikes, confirmed by the u.s. on islamic state artillery

what do we owe the kurds at this point? how is aid to them being coordinated at this point in terms of machinery and weaponry. >> we do owe the kurds our support. they are on the front lines against isil. we have channelled our assistance to the kurds through the central government. kurdistan is part of iraq. we support a unified iraq as a matter of policy. given the urgency of the situation now, we are expediting assistance both to the iraqi security forces in baghdad, but also to those kurdish forces on the front lines, so they are receiving additional arms and assistance from us. we also have military advisers in erbil who have a joint operation center with the kurds where they are able to help them coordinate their pushback against isil. >> last question about the situation bubbling in ukraine and russia that continues to escalate. convoys of russian trucks are traveling, some said save on an aid mission. what's your take? >> well, we have been skeptical. we reject the russians using the humanitarian situation in easter

the kurds overwhelming isis in two towns and targeted u.s. bombings are having an impact. >>> is rory mcilroy the new tiger woods? and more fallout from the tony stewart collision that killed a young driver. plus, gas prices down 19 cents in seven weeks. and turtle power with megan fox rules the weekend. good monday morning, everybody. thanks for joining us. a call for calm in a st. louis suburb after an unarmed black teen is shot dead. new video of rioting and looting in ferguson, tempers reached a boiling point sunday night. looters ran sacked stores during a vigil for 18-year-old michael brown. a struggle over a cop's gun led to his fatal shooting. brown's family is not buying it. this morning the community remains on edge bracing for more backlash. nbc's jay gray has more. >> reporter: crowds gathered in ferguson, missouri, sunday night to march for justice and peace. but their vigil quickly turned violent. dozens of police officers from st. louis and surrounding areas rushed in as an angry mob lit fires and looted local businesses, frust

what they've done is pivoted and gone against the outpost of kurd i stan. there are two entities to handle that if given sufficient support. but ed, this is the important part, the president should have benchmarks and if they aren't being met, that is the advance keeps going on, then he has to go to the contingency plan, containment all around iraq. that's not what they did before but this president has set the limit no ground troops. so we can do with this artillery from the air or have a good chance of achieving a stoppage of isis. >> can we contain extremists? extremists always come back. extremists are driven from the heart and soul. they are willing to die for it. this is jihad on their part. so i don't know -- you would have to wipe them all out if you really want to erase the problem, wouldn't you? at this point this is just an american operation. >> i would like to forget about them and think they've disappeared but we don't have a choice. we went into iraq and as general powell said, if you break it, you own it. what happened here in syria, as well