do you find for the families you interface with /kurpbly? it varies depending on the families and [inaudible] the families that are capable of tracking down their birth certificate, that are capable of getting their letter of homelessness, for those that can check in every week. these families that are in a /tkpwraeer level of crisis, those are the families for whom it can be very challenging to get these documents. i think the bulk of work that case managers do at connecting point, a lot of times, is helping families track down those documents. >> i have no idea how to get my own birth certificate. >> even the president of the united states is not able to get a birth certificate, right? let me go back to the point supervisor kim was making. for me, there is a difference when you're talking about homeless shelters because that is the lowest point in the safety net so the question would be -- you talked about some of those families that are not able to provide that information. if the families are denied services here, where do they go? >> an