i'm pleased to have kurt eichenwald at this table. welcome. >> thank you. >> this is a great question. many things stewart a question, as you well know. and it is what happened to microsoft. how did this question begin for you? >> the question began when graydon carter, top guy ativanty fair, put down the question "what happened to microsoft." and it was a venture on my part to figure out the answer to that question. because when you really got down to it, if you go out into the general public talking about technology, you are talking about apple, you're talking about facebook, you're talking about google and microsoft is a conversational also-ran. which in ten, 12 years ago it was the one that people couldn't imagine wouldn't be in control of everything so you really step back and say "what happened"? >> rose: there was an important moment in which eric smit said it will be a contest between facebook, google, amazon and apple. leaving out mooft. unbelievable! yet many people said "i understand where he's coming from." >> yeah. and it

. >> investigators eichenwald writes about microsoft's lost decade. >> kurt ieichenwald is here.? >> in the simplest term, microsoft lost its way. >> we know that. that's the consequence. >> what happened was, you had a company where everybody was making millions solely from the rise of stock prices. and when that changed, when the stock hit a wall, they had to figure out how do we keep people motivated and going and what they've done is they've created a company that's really more like a g.e. or more like an auto company. the idea of being incentivized to develop product just isn't there anymore. you've got people who are incentivized to climb the corporate ladder and to compete with each other in terms of getting the next bonus and the culture just doesn't have that infusion of dynamic moving to the next step. >> there is this thing called a stacking system which you talk about here, which jack welsh famously used very well at g.e., but it doesn't work according to what you found out? >> no. i mean -- >> at microsoft. >> the thing is, nothing can be grafted from one company to