about. >> ambassador kurt volker, what do you think?i think russia clearly staked out what it wants. it wants to annex crimea. while it isn't gone today, i think by next week this time we'll be saying it is. >> what about the possibility of greater escalation. the rest of eastern and southeastern ukraine, we saw pro-russian demonstrations on monday, and the russians made noises, as they did about crimea, about protecting russians there. >> so the russians can prompt the demonstrations at any point. they have been sending prove okay tours across the border. they can make them happen, what is going on in ukraine is response to what is going on in crimea. that is the non-crimean part. ukrainians are pulling together. they are uniting in opposition to this russian move. >> i think the russians may have misplayed this. >> you don't think the russians ukraine. >> i think if they did, it would be a major disaster for them. the ukrainians will unit and fight if the russians move across the border and it will rejuvenate n.a.t.o. >> james jeffrey

he we are joined by william taylor, and kurt volker, a former u.s. ambassador to n.a.t.o., and the executive director of the mack cane institute at the university of arizona. they join us from washington d.c. you heard bob gates say that crimea is gone, is it? >> no, it's not gone. it doesn't look great. but there's some indication, as your leader says, that there could be talks, discussions. the russians occupy with their troops crimea. it gives them something to bargain with. that is what negotiation is about. >> ambassador kurt volker, what do you think? >> i think russia clearly staked out what it wants. it wants to annex crimea. while it isn't gone today, i think by next week this time we'll be saying it is. >> what about the possibility of greater escalation. the rest of eastern and southeastern ukraine, we saw pro-russian demonstrations on monday, and the russians made noises, as they did about crimea, about protecting russians there. >> so the russians can prompt the demonstrations at any point. they have been sending prove okay tours across

kurt volker. going forward now up. clinton spin out of control. certainly this thing is a great danger that the slc mullen said she doesn't expect russia to go further and further remedial is that the french center but the fact is the last week russia has gone farther than any of us that they would of thought prudent or a reasonable and nothing we can stand to still be surprised by how far russia is willing to go. i hope that perhaps the most that russia has in mind is a model such as it has advanced history of war cause it's the opposite you weren't in it effectively occupies parts of its neighboring countries. and then he says governments little balance in order to continue to exercise influence that might be the most stable outcome we can see in the short term but i think it is very risky there's a risk that russia will seek to go further at this point are you saying that the best the west and hope for and of coz i like the internets in the short term. i think that this car is as we get is to stabilize the situation we have which is already som

kurt volker, is there in europe here a really unified view of who's in the wrong and who's in the right? >> well i think to a large extent yes there is. there's a view that russia has violated borders, it's in breach of its 1994 budapest memorandum it signed. at the same time there's a concern in europe about stepping up to be in a conflict directly with russia and there's a bit of skepticism that the ukrainians aren't ready for conflict and do they want that responsibility? so i think there's a little bit of bhaim to be cast on russia, there's a lot of caution on european reaction. >> sanctions against russia, there is sort of a perception in the u.s. that of course europe, it's the neighbor of the situation, surely they should be ready to supply very strong sanctions. why not? >> they bite both ways. europe is dependent on russia for natural gas. and investments, there's a strong hesitation coming out of the business community in europe as well. see, if we go down the sanctions road how is it going to bite us? >> now the loan guarantees, the step-up on that front but what about that,

ambassador to n.a.t.o., kurt volker. you listened to secretary of state john kerry's comments, did you get the impression that any progress was made? >> i got the impression that no progress was made. in fact, we seem to be speaking different language. russia is speaking a language of force and making demands over its neighbour. united states is speaking diplomacy and deescalation which, if russia was interested in might be helpful. at this point russia is making demand that can't be met and is willing to use force to achieve. >> if they are speaking two languages, why are they speaking especially since vladimir putin picked up the phone to president obama on friday. >> there are a couple of objectivese objectiv objectives. one is to stretch out the time line, de-escalating the move towards higher levels of sanctions and push back. after a period of calm, it can play out diplomatic gain while amassing forces in the ukraine and looks for the leaders, whether it's referreda in, or in that region. whether it's working to fo